Test Server Findings

[Byrthnoth]

No, SMN could easily be the best way to do pickup events if they substantially improved Avatar DPS. Here is why:
* All avatar gear
* Is totally
* Utterly
* Shit.

There are two things that matter for summoner's ultimate damage potential. Capping BP delay reduction and wearing AF3+2 body. Past that, nothing matters, and those two things are really easy to get (BP delay) or don't even matter that much (+10% damage to BPs). Because of this, you don't have to worry about your pickup Summoners sucking. There is a very limited amount that effort on the gear front can improve a summoner's performance. If SE was to buff Avatars so they were as good as mediocre melees and reduce/eliminate the voidwatch light requirements, you could do almost any Voidwatch event with any 18 shout summoners with a 0% chance of losing. As long as they're capable of summoning and using Assault, nothing else would matter. It would be the single safest way to do any event. Not only that, but it would be the safest way to do any "hard fights" that don't require procs.

Botulus would probably eat a summoner alliance with Meteor and Chainspell though.

[Darkmagi]

Well sure this helps retarded pickup groups, but it doesn't help a decent group in the slightest. I also end up doing a lot of pickup VW, and nothing really ends up being trouble as long as I keep out the most retarded of people.

[Yugl]

Three Radecs can push through Bot Rex though. That's how you really L-man events!

[Draylo]

No, SMN could easily be the best way to do pickup events if they substantially improved Avatar DPS. Here is why:
* All avatar gear
* Is totally
* Utterly
* Shit.

There are two things that matter for summoner's ultimate damage potential. Capping BP delay reduction and wearing AF3+2 body. Past that, nothing matters, and those two things are really easy to get (BP delay) or don't even matter that much (+10% damage to BPs). Because of this, you don't have to worry about your pickup Summoners sucking. There is a very limited amount that effort on the gear front can improve a summoner's performance. If SE was to buff Avatars so they were as good as mediocre melees and reduce/eliminate the voidwatch light requirements, you could do almost any Voidwatch event with any 18 shout summoners with a 0% chance of losing. As long as they're capable of summoning and using Assault, nothing else would matter. It would be the single safest way to do any event. Not only that, but it would be the safest way to do any "hard fights" that don't require procs.

Botulus would probably eat a summoner alliance with Meteor and Chainspell though.

A big reason SE is so afraid of powering SMN's up. They have been afraid of the job since the start, but who the hell cares at this point. SMN has always been a very heavy DD in the past FF games and complete shit in this one lol. At least when you were progressing through the game, in most FF end game you just smack with normal hit for 9999

[Shenrien]

>_> if we're gonna talk other Final Fantasys and compare it to FFXI, then lets talk every other job in the game about older titles, or better yet lets talk the entire games system. In what Final Fantasy has there ever been a Lv.99 Warrior class type character that sat at 1,700HP at Lv.99?

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

How is it that retarded mother fuckers like Darkmagi still around in FF11 in 2012?

Throughout the course of FF11's life, it's always been stupid fucks like Darkmagi that has influenced the ignorant masses on how to play this game. It's not like they're intelligent or anything; these dumb fucks are simply just the loudest, whiniest, bitchiest people around.

Darkmagi reminds me of the common, typical scrub in Street Fighter who complains about how a low tier is bad because he doesn't have a fireball or an shoryuken, therefore he has to be bad and there's no way to use the character effectively. All the while, there are skilled players out there who know their characters, dedicate the time, and take it to the next level, working around the character's despite flaws.

I mean, it's 20fucking12. FF11 has been out for almost 10 years. How the fuck is it that these shit stains haven't comprehend the idea that a SMN SHOULDN'T BE SHITTING OUT DAMAGE LIKE A WAR? How is it that they haven't comprehend the fact that SMN's niche has always been doing hate free damage from a safe distance? How is it that they haven't comprehend that SMN has great utility in low man situation?

What the fuck is the point of having so many different jobs if a SMN plays like a WAR?

Some of you people's suggestions are fucking dumb as dirt. Removing BP cap? What the fuck is the point? So they can spam BP non stop like a BLM would spam nukes? Make Physical BP do as much damage as Ukkon's Fury? Have Avatar reach 80% haste cap?

So let me get this straight: Let's remove BP timer cap, have avatar reach 80% haste cap, and have physical BP do as much or more damage as the strongest physical WS in the game.

So in essence, fixing SMN means giving it an ability to summon a WAR with 80% haste spamming Ukko's Fury for hate free damage. All the while this summoned WAR is out raping the entire population of FFXI's endgame, the SMN themself are free to buff and heal at a safe distance. BALANCE AMIDOINGITRIGHTGUYZ?

[Damane]

... How is it that they haven't comprehend that SMN has great utility in low man situation?...

Did I miss something? Since when has SMN great utility in low man situations oO

[Raen Ryong]

How is it that retarded mother fuckers like Darkmagi still around in FF11 in 2012?

not an argument

Throughout the course of FF11's life, it's always been stupid fucks like Darkmagi that has influenced the ignorant masses on how to play this game. It's not like they're intelligent or anything; these dumb fucks are simply just the loudest, whiniest, bitchiest people around.

jobs have mathematical limits and characteristics - you can almost definitively say how to play a job based on analysis of these.

Darkmagi reminds me of the common, typical scrub in Street Fighter who complains about how a low tier is bad because he doesn't have a fireball or an shoryuken, therefore he has to be bad and there's no way to use the character effectively. All the while, there are skilled players out there who know their characters, dedicate the time, and take it to the next level, working around the character's despite flaws.

however by definition a low tier character is weaker than a medium or high tier character. In a situation where two players of equal skill compete, the one with the higher tier character will win.

I mean, it's 20fucking12. FF11 has been out for almost 10 years. How the fuck is it that these shit stains haven't comprehend the idea that a SMN SHOULDN'T BE SHITTING OUT DAMAGE LIKE A WAR? How is it that they haven't comprehend the fact that SMN's niche has always been doing hate free damage from a safe distance? How is it that they haven't comprehend that SMN has great utility in low man situation?

1. why shouldn't SMN do comparable damage to a WAR? Why is WAR the benchmark for maximum damage? Because of a logical reason, or because of the prevailing status quo?
2. how is it that you don't comprehend that this niche is fairly useless?
3. SMN has always been meh at most forms of ... anything really. PD aside.

What the fuck is the point of having so many different jobs if a SMN plays like a WAR?

What the fuck is the point of having so many different jobs if half of them are very undesirable?

[Byrthnoth]

Super secondhand information, but Unctgtg posted that someone on the JP forums posted that they are reducing the level 99 requirements to:
* 5 ADL items
* 3 PW items
* 60 Riftdross/cinder

That seems much more reasonable. Now you're down to a week or two per relic/mythic.

Here it is. Mocchi, looks legit.

From the looks of things, he posted the same "Q.Q WE COULD HAVE MADE IT 1 OR 9999!!!1!1" post that Camate made a few days ago. In the post I linked here, he threatens that they would have to multiply the number of drops by 18 if they were going to conert it to number of kills. Classy, SE.

[Karbuncle]

Still retarded

Maybe they'll add new sources of the ADL Item? That or they're really not listening to any of the complaining and what its about... Hint: Its not the Quantity, its the item itself

But i guess they're half-listening? Its a start?

[Lyramion]

Use social skills, form pacts and allys with the other "lowman" people or be happy with your 95 weapon. Seriously those numbers aren't bad at all. Maybe now you are still QQing, in a few month ppl will chainfarm ADLs and PWs like nothing ever happened.

[Jem]

Grateful for the reduction but 5 is still too many imo unless another Umbral Marrow source is introduced. For my LS that means 75 ADL kills. So 2 and a half months even if we did ADL every day. And that isn't accounting for possible congestion due to only 1 ??? per NM.

If they made it drop from HQ Diabolos as well I'd be happy with 5. At least you can do multiple Diabolos per run and it would ease congestion somewhat.

[Atoreis]

Idk why you think it should be possible to upg the best weapon in the game faster then in week for one person >.>

You guys look like bunch of ultimate whiners now.

Can do salvage everyday for 10 months to get few sets for everyone but can do adl for 2 months to get everyone best weapons in the game >.>

[Karbuncle]

Use social skills, form pacts and allys with the other "lowman" people or be happy with your 95 weapon. Seriously those numbers aren't bad at all. Maybe now you are still QQing, in a few month ppl will chainfarm ADLs and PWs like nothing ever happened.

The numbers? Not bad, I 100% Agree its a vast improvement.

I think its the NM that Is the problem. Social Skilling it up and Teaming up with the best people on the servers not going to erase the dumb luck factor of that fight. I'm happy its lowered, But its still annoying, Not the quantity, Just the NM itself. That and at current theres 1 ??? For the entire Server (They'll probably update this)

Again, I'm thankful they're lowering it, But its not really the Quantity, I'd accept 20, even 100 If it meant i could kill a different NM...

[Byrthnoth]

Pick out a zerg setup and shout for people to fill it. Offer them the right to lot ADL equipment or 1 million gil. Seven runs (2 failures) would likely cost you less than 100 mil, and perhaps substantially less if you get on it soon.

[Jem]

Because it's grossly disproportionate to the other 2 trials. 60 Riftdross/riftcinder is far easier despite SE stating they wanted Empyrean trials to be the hardest of the 3.

If there was no entry limit on Dynamis then I agree 5 wouldn't be an issue at all. 5 in isolation isn't bad either. It's the fact that most LS'es are going to have multiple relics and no way would any member in my LS be happy at the prospect of doing 75 ADL's given that it's a once a day deal. It's not like it's VW and we can spam it with 18 chances at getting the item per kill with no other repercussions other than using voidstones.

5 is very doable though. Far better than 20 I agree. I guess I'm slightly biased because I would rather do it with my LS and I would also want all of them to have their relics upgraded too.

[Karbuncle]

Maybe they'll add the Drop to another NM.

Thats my only hope at this point. Should be added to Dynamis Lord, even if its only 20% or lower drop rate, It'd be helpful.

[Byrthnoth]

Unless I am mistaken, SE said they wanted to balance the trial difficulties, not make sure empyreans had the hardest final trial. Currency is cheap and only requires gil and standing around Port Jeuno to obtain. Quest and personal investment wise, getting a relic to 95 is the easiest of the three paths at the moment. It makes sense that the final relic trial would be harder than the other two.

As it stands -
99 Relics : Around 17k currency, 1 fragment, 1 attestation, and 5 ADL kills
* Estimated gil cost: 200-300mil assuming everything buyable bought

99 Mythics : 30k Alexandrite, 100,000 Ampuoles, 150,000 NI tokens, 100 assaults, 12 Tier 4 ZNM kills, 3 PW Kills Estimated gil cost: 300~500mil assuming everything buyable bought (varies a lot based on server)

99 Empyreans : A few days of killing lotto NMs, then 175 Abyssea monster drops, 1500 HMPs, and 60 Riftdross/cinder
Estimated gil cost: 200-350mil assuming everything buyable bought

[Karbuncle]

Unless I am mistaken, SE said they wanted to balance the trial difficulties, not make sure empyreans had the hardest final trial. Currency is cheap and only requires gil and standing around Port Jeuno to obtain. Quest and personal investment wise, getting a relic to 95 is the easiest of the three paths at the moment. It makes sense that the final relic trial would be harder than the other two.

As it stands -
99 Relics : Around 17k currency, 1 fragment, 1 attestation, about 1,200 Killshots on some mobs, 5 Ass-Paper NM kills, 10 Relic Weapon Kills, and 5 ADL kills
* Estimated gil cost: 200-300mil assuming everything buyable bought

99 Mythics : 30k Alexandrite, 100,000 Ampuoles, 150,000 NI tokens, 100 assaults, 12 Tier 4 ZNM kills, 3 PW Kills Estimated gil cost: 300~500mil assuming everything buyable bought (varies a lot based on server)

99 Empyreans : A few days of killing lotto NMs, then 175 Abyssea monster drops, 1500 HMPs, and 60 Riftdross/cinder
Estimated gil cost: 200-350mil assuming everything buyable bought

Fixed the Relic trial for you, Its not much, But you missed Every trial between 75 and 95.

Mythic's are the hardest ATM i think.

[Byrthnoth]

You forgot to add all the stupid killshot trials in for the mythic then too. =p Still, even with the 5 ADLs, I would put Relics as the easiest 99 weapon to obtain.