Test Server Findings

[Churchill]

I'd rather 3 PWs, then again that's Lv75 content that gets knocked over with no real chance of loss or sacrifice of other events by the parties involved.

[Karbuncle]

Probably. Unless you count the level 99 Afterglow Trial, Then Relics are back to being the hardest and most expensive.

(Also I Didn't know Mythics had Killshot trials, Never looked at em lol)

[Damane]

You forgot to add all the stupid killshot trials in for the mythic then too. =p Still, even with the 5 ADLs, I would put Relics as the easiest 99 weapon to obtain.

I disagree.

Empy seems to me the easiest one to obtain, because you can frankly do all trials in PUGs. Mythic is the hardest ones since it requires at least some teamwork at different points, followed by relics that require the most teamwork in the end, you cant do ADL in a PUG.

[Byrthnoth]

I agree. 3PWs may well be the easiest option if we really get 15x points per plate. 15000 points per game day, two tier 4s per HQ/NQ camera session with one character. More than one PW per HQ/2NQ cameras. You could collect all the zeni you need for three PWs in less than a day.

PS. Damane
You can solo all the relic and empyrean trials/requirements. All you need is gil. For relics, you only need to leave Port Jeuno for a few hours.

[Atoreis]

Because it's grossly disproportionate to the other 2 trials. 60 Riftdross/riftcinder is far easier despite SE stating they wanted Empyrean trials to be the hardest of the 3.

If there was no entry limit on Dynamis then I agree 5 wouldn't be an issue at all. 5 in isolation isn't bad either. It's the fact that most LS'es are going to have multiple relics and no way would any member in my LS be happy at the prospect of doing 75 ADL's given that it's a once a day deal. It's not like it's VW and we can spam it with 18 chances at getting the item per kill with no other repercussions other than using voidstones.

5 is very doable though. Far better than 20 I agree. I guess I'm slightly biased because I would rather do it with my LS and I would also want all of them to have their relics upgraded too.

This is just stupid lol....
Empyrean isnt easier...
I would like to see your LS getting 15 x 60 dross in those 2 months.

Lets say 12 ig alima in 2h.
Lets say its 1drop per kill.
12 per day.
5 days to get one person 99 empyrean.

1ADL kill per day
5days to get one person 99 relic.

Sounds like balanced for me especially when ppl figure out good strategy for adl and will be able to kill 2-3 a run.

[Jem]

I'm willing to give them a chance at 5 because there's always the chance that something else will be tweaked favorably.

I think the main QQ point for most Relic holders isn't the number of items or the difficulty of the mob. It's the Dynamis entry limitations. If it wasn't for the once a day entry, even 20 items would have been perfectly reasonable. But it is what it is.

I think my plan will probably be to try farm the sets lowman and then just get the LS to turn up and zerg pops. Possibly try drag along extra SMN's so we can shoot for multiple kills. For 5 that's no problem at all really (although me and the wife will need 25 but that can hardly be an against argument).

[Churchill]

Except Ig-Alima and Botulus Rex drop gear that people want, with the prospect of new ways to obtain Riftdross/Riftcinder in future VW Chapters.

If you're going to complain about the Empyrean trial, I've also got an itch on my balls that needs to be scratched.

[Karbuncle]

This is just stupid lol....
Empyrean isnt easier...
I would like to see your LS getting 15 x 60 dross in those 2 months.

Lets say 12 ig alima in 2h.
Lets say its 1drop per kill.
12 per day.
5 days to get one person 99 empyrean.

1ADL kill per day
5days to get one person 99 relic.

Sounds like balanced for me especially when ppl figure out good strategy for adl and will be able to kill 2-3 a run.

I think considering the whole "Dumb Luck" Factor, The best Strategy would be, When it divides,

have X number of DD Fight the Left one.
and
Have X number of DD fight the Right one.

If your DD are good enough, Should yield the best results. Unless he gets full HP When he splits...? If so, There's no strategy to combat dumb luck (Door A or Door B!) Either way, implying 5 days of "Kill ADL", Implies you pick the right Dynamis Lord each time. Pick the wrong one and you've wasted a pop and come back tomorrow.

Also, Saying "12 Ig-Alima" a day is purposefully limiting it in favor of Empyreans, Considering that's a self-imposed limit. You can spam As many Ig-Alima's a day as you want, where you can only do 1 Dynamis run per day period.

[Jem]

And the fact that 60 Riftdross/cinder is like 60m. If I could go and get 5 Umbral Marrow for 60m then I would be absolutely elated and there would be zero complaints from me.

Hell if SE changed it so we needed 60 Umbral Marrow but ADL was now poppable outside of Dynamis with no pre-NM farming, allowed you to use temps/atmacites (but Rex/Ig-Alima HP), had worthwhile drops for everyone else and could be spammed to your hearts content on a daily basis then I would go suck Tanaka's cock right now.

[Karbuncle]

That too. (On both accounts, The Rift-dross thing and the Popping ADL outside Dynamis!)

Still thinking Adding Umbral Marrow to all "Arch" Bosses would sate almost any and all complaints.

[Byrthnoth]

And the fact that 60 Riftdross/cinder is like 60m. If I could go and get 5 Umbral Marrow for 60m then I would be absolutely elated and there would be zero complaints from me.

Hell if SE changed it so we needed 60 Umbral Marrow but ADL was now poppable outside of Dynamis with no pre-NM farming, allowed you to use temps/atmacites (but Rex/Ig-Alima HP), had worthwhile drops for everyone else and could be spammed to your hearts content on a daily basis then I would go suck Tanaka's cock right now.

If you get 10 people @ 1mil each and 7 people that want his drops, you could kill him 6 times for 60mil.

Plus, it isn't like these final trials should be equal. 1500 HMPs costs more than a relic (150~180 mil vs. a max of under 150mil) and the 75-90 trials for empyreans are harder than the 75-90 trials for relics.

[aionls]

Between relics and empyreans im going with relics been the hardest to make again, sure you can make them by not leaving port jeuno if you have the gil, but you have to make the gil and that counts towards making the relic, you then have to do all the shitty trials and then spend even more gil for the last stage or do the adl kills.

Empyreans you do some too weak nms, then you do 50/50/75 items in abyssea, each and every one of those nms are a joke at 99, then you get the gil factor take a look at relics here you can just stay in port jeuno, and then the final stage.

However with empyreans you are getting good gear whilst making the damn weapons all the way through, so it's much easier to drag help along and gear out your mules if thats how you do it.

Mythic i won't comment on as i don't have one.

[Khamsin]

Reducing BP timer down to 30 seconds increases WS phase damage (aka BP) by the equivalent of 50% Haste without touching white damage. It will not come close to melees who are able to shit out 80% Haste that affects both WS and TP phase damage, with significantly more powerful white damage and comparable per-WS damage in many/most cases.

Fucking truthbomb, per-WS damage doesn't mean jack shit. It doesn't matter how awesome you make each BP if they sit on a 45 second timer and you do practically no damage in the interim. Changing the BP timer to 30 seconds is a 50% increase in total BP damage but who cares? Multiplying shit by 1.5x doesn't make it any less shitty.

Summoner has only ever been comparable on the DD scale to B-tier melees who are not getting any marches, any sambas, or even Magic Haste. Forcing Avatars to rely exclusively on a job ability for 95%+ of their damage was a horrendous and shortsighted design decision. It restricts Summoners to a static damage output. If they make that output too high, it would be god tier solo and wreck everything else in that department. If they left it reasonable for solo/unbuffed situations, it would be shat on by any job with dynamic damage output that is able to take advantage of buffs.

The whole BP system needs to be scrapped if Summoner is ever going to be worthwhile as a damage dealer. Support's another story, but I can think of a whole 0 Summoners who want the job to go that route.

Simple solution is to boost BP damage to some amount that makes them worthwhile and on-par with decent melee, even at 45 seconds per BP. You say that increasing BP damage won't help, but I ask you: If each BP did 1,000,000 damage, how would SMN compare then? Too much? Then there must be some intermediate amount of damage that would work. Just take some parses of well-equipped DDs and divide it out in 45 second intervals, and use that as a baseline for what well-equipped SMN BP damage should be like. Naked SMNs without -BP gear will have lesser damage spread out over 60 second intervals, and thus compare to more mediocre DDs.

SMNs would even have an advantage, then, as they could pump out 45 seconds worth of WAR-quality damage in the first 5 seconds of battle.

As long as there is such a thing as "too much" and "too little", there will always be a "just right".

[Jem]

That still requires you getting 17 other people who may or may not be competent enough to kill ADL compared to just buying 60 Riftdross/cinder with that gil.

[Atoreis]

If you get 10 people @ 1mil each and 7 people that want his drops, you could kill him 6 times for 60mil.

Plus, it isn't like these final trials should be equal. 1500 HMPs costs more than a relic (150~180 mil vs. a max of under 150mil) and the 75-90 trials for empyreans are harder than the 75-90 trials for relics.

Now go tell that to retards on official forum whos argument is "Empyrean were easy to obtain till 90 and now SE cockblocking them with some HMP and Dross!!! WTF?!??! They were suppose to be easy to get fot casuals!!! 95 trial should be kill 5 Kaggen and 99 Kill 5 T6 mantis because other T6 and Alima/Rex are too hard too!!!!"
Such a retards.

[Churchill]

I get the feeling you stare at your 95Ukon and just wish you could fuck it

[Damane]

And the fact that 60 Riftdross/cinder is like 60m. If I could go and get 5 Umbral Marrow for 60m then I would be absolutely elated and there would be zero complaints from me.

Hell if SE changed it so we needed 60 Umbral Marrow but ADL was now poppable outside of Dynamis with no pre-NM farming, allowed you to use temps/atmacites (but Rex/Ig-Alima HP), had worthwhile drops for everyone else and could be spammed to your hearts content on a daily basis then I would go suck Tanaka's cock right now.

Hell it would allready help if umbral marrow would drop from arch diabolos, since thats a lesser cockblock arch NM which you can farm multiple pops in less time and pop 3-4 in one run. Aka he doesnt need 2 hours jobabilitys to begin with and can be killed by 12 people.

[NynJa]

I agree. 3PWs may well be the easiest option if we really get 15x points per plate. 15000 points per game day, two tier 4s per HQ/NQ camera session with one character. More than one PW per HQ/2NQ cameras. You could collect all the zeni you need for three PWs in less than a day.

PS. Damane
You can solo all the relic and empyrean trials/requirements. All you need is gil. For relics, you only need to leave Port Jeuno for a few hours.

You cant base everything on the requirement of gil, because gil is useless when the item you need to buy doesnt exist.


Atroies really needs to pull his 95 ukon out of his fucking ass, like I said before, he's becoming dangerously close to pchan levels.

[aionls]

If you get 10 people @ 1mil each and 7 people that want his drops, you could kill him 6 times for 60mil.

Plus, it isn't like these final trials should be equal. 1500 HMPs costs more than a relic (150~180 mil vs. a max of under 150mil) and the 75-90 trials for empyreans are harder than the 75-90 trials for relics.

Yeah and i'd say the final relic trial just puts relics over empyreans regarding which is the hardest to make, not that it matters they are pretty evenly balanced now i'd say.

[Atoreis]

Simple solution is to boost BP damage to some amount that makes them worthwhile and on-par with decent melee, even at 45 seconds per BP. You say that increasing BP damage won't help, but I ask you: If each BP did 1,000,000 damage, how would SMN compare then? Too much? Then there must be some intermediate amount of damage that would work. Just take some parses of well-equipped DDs and divide it out in 45 second intervals, and use that as a baseline for what well-equipped SMN BP damage should be like. Naked SMNs without -BP gear will have lesser damage spread out over 60 second intervals, and thus compare to more mediocre DDs.

SMNs would even have an advantage, then, as they could pump out 45 seconds worth of WAR-quality damage in the first 5 seconds of battle.

As long as there is such a thing as "too much" and "too little", there will always be a "just right".

Yeah sure.

Hate free damage
Self cure job
A lot more.
and same dmg as pure DD

I wont even start with how you could exploit instant dmg that deals 20k(because thats like a minimum of what good DD can do in 45 sec) in an party or ally of SMNs.
Pop 5 sec later 20kx18=360k dmg dead mob.