Test Server Findings

[Byrthnoth]

Here is a breakdown:

Relics:
17000 O.bronze would cost you 136mil on my server, so lets go with that
Lets toss in another mil for other crap you need to upgrade.
Fragment/Attest, Killshot Trials, 90/95 Dynamis trials: priceless - I don't think you could find someone to sell you these anymore, but they aren't hard.
5 ADL drops at 20mil each (5mil profit per kill for the organizer assuming my above setup works half the time)
Total: 237mil

Empyreans:
Lotto NM kills: priceless - I don't think you could find someone to sell these, but they aren't hard
175 items: At 200k each, 35mil. This is lower than what people charge for some paths.
1500 HMPs: 120k per plate is pretty normal on my server, so 180mil. It personally cost me over 200mil to finish my 95 Twashtar less than a month ago.
60 Riftdross: Likely 500k to 1mil each once the prices settle. Lets say 500k, so 30mil
Total: 245mil


Will people set up ADL runs for 5mil profit per run? I'm not sure.
What will Riftdross sell at? I don't know.
Will HMP prices stay the same? The future is hazy.

Point is, they are the closest to balanced they have ever been.

[Karbuncle]

I'm seeing ADL pops for 30mil+ on Asura (And by 30mil on Asura, I mean the 1 Taru in Ru'Lude selling it) So add about 50mil to Relic Trials. (10mil x 5)

Also - why are we putting it all in the value of Gil again >_>? I don't know very many people who buy all of their Empyrean upgrade items or Currency :X, Its like Vacuum math in Empyrean/Relic form.

Sorry But yah, i suppose its pretty 'balanced'. i hate that word now >_>

[Alkimi]

Can see prices rising a bit now that it's only 5 required. There's crazies out there that will spend 150mil on a 99 weapon in a heartbeat.

[Damane]

Here is a breakdown:

Relics:
17000 O.bronze would cost you 136mil on my server, so lets go with that
Lets toss in another mil for other crap you need to upgrade.
Fragment/Attest, Killshot Trials, 90/95 Dynamis trials: priceless - I don't think you could find someone to sell you these anymore, but they aren't hard.
5 ADL drops at 20mil each (5mil profit per kill for the organizer assuming my above setup works half the time)
Total: 237mil

Empyreans:
Lotto NM kills: priceless - I don't think you could find someone to sell these, but they aren't hard
175 items: At 200k each, 35mil. This is lower than what people charge for some paths.
1500 HMPs: 120k per plate is pretty normal on my server, so 180mil. It personally cost me over 200mil to finish my 95 Twashtar less than a month ago.
60 Riftdross: Likely 500k to 1mil each once the prices settle. Lets say 500k, so 30mil
Total: 245mil


Will people set up ADL runs for 5mil profit per run? I'm not sure.
What will Riftdross sell at? I don't know.
Will HMP prices stay the same? The future is hazy.

Point is, they are the closest to balanced they have ever been.

From gil perspectiv maybe yes. But the flaw occures in readiness of the items: Empy upgrade items are entering daily the market in quiet some quantity, ADL upgrade items... not so much, even after the update, you wont see them for a LONG time.

[Jem]

The main problem will be finding the Umbral Marrow. If it was readily available at 20m then I doubt any serious Relic holder would complain. Even 30m wouldn't be a concern for most. Finding a seller would be a completely different matter.

[Byrthnoth]

Well, I also took the lowest estimation for all the empyrean things. A higher estimation for empyreans would be:
Empyrean: 500k per Glavoid Shell, 300k per Itz Scale, 300k per Orthrus Claw = 62.5mil
130k per HMP = 195mil
1mil per Riftdross/cinder = 60mil
Total: 318mil

That is why I built ranges into my estimation earlier.

(I just pulled these numbers from ffxiah or port jeuno)

Also, there is no real demand for the marrow at the moment. People make shout alliances for AV. Maybe they will make shout alliances for ADL.

[NynJa]

How can you quantify in gil an item that never winds up on the market though?

How many people here are actually going to farm ADL to sell marrows?


I get SE's demand for balance, but how does this make sense? One person 2boxing can literally do ALL of the legwork for PW on their own, and then rally the troops for 3 PW fights (hold 2 PW pop items, and then have a 3rd sitting on the NPC ready to pick up). The relic upgrade requires rallying troops for 14 hours, a full week 2 hours a day. Emp trial...well you just sit on ffxiah shouts and wait for rex/alima, or camp bazaars for an item thats constantly being generated.

[Damane]

Also, there is no real demand for the marrow at the moment. People make shout alliances for AV. Maybe they will make shout alliances for ADL.

that would be news to me, never seen one to this day. I really doubt shout alliances for ADL would happen, there is no gear to gain from him that is even semi decent, and you need proper preperations for it.

[Jem]

The gil figures aren't really what people are arguing against though. There has to be the an available supply of the items before you can buy them.

[Damane]

The gil figures aren't really what people are arguing against though. There has to be the an available supply of the items before you can buy them.

adding umbral marrow to each and every other arch dynamis boss would actully solve some of the problem. The Availabilty would rise and the item would actually enter the market

[Jem]

If they added Umbral to all Arch Dyna bosses then I would personally say they would need to increase the number of items required (20 may be about right but possibly even more). 5 would be a complete joke if every Arch Dyna boss dropped them (assuming 1 each at 100% drop rate).

[NynJa]

They could have left it at 20 and increased drops on Arch mobs based on difficulty.

fuck im late for work haha

[Mahoro]

that would be news to me, never seen one to this day. I really doubt shout alliances for ADL would happen, there is no gear to gain from him that is even semi decent, and you need proper preperations for it.

I dunno, I doubt anybody who has PLD would actually REFUSE to lot on Sagasinger if it were in the treasure pool, claiming it isn't semi-decent. Hell, I know some people who would lot it for the rarity/glowiness alone. People love their white whales and trinkets. Some people in my shell are interested in Shadow Ring/Mantle and Archon stuff too, although admittedly a lesser percentage.

5 items per relic is much more reasonable although I do take big issue with SE's misleading statements regarding the accessibility of this trial. This content will be done much more in structured LS's with an Arch Boss rotation rather than PUG's (I love the suggestion to add Marrow to Arch Diabolos). Byrth had a pretty good idea for PUG's though, I have to say. Offer people either 1 million gil or the right to lot ADL drops. You would likely spend less money overall from doing it this way than buying Marrow from bazaar (assuming you can even FIND a Marrow).

[NynJa]

I wouldnt trust PUGs with adl with a strict gil value awarded...youll wind up with scrubs like malacite cuz anyone worth a damn would realize they can make more than 1m in dyna and the ADL drops are trophies at best, which never drop

[Skeelo]

Maybe as a balance each clone will drop a marrow. So get 15+ war and just cleave them all! Bonus

[Churchill]

Maybe it's because I've never fought ADL, but that said, and by looking at pickups for T6 VW, Zilart T3, and AV, I don't ever see Umbral Marrow entering the market on Lakshmi. Half the people that are good players aren't really that good, the other half are split between a small few linkshells with some of those having the majority of said good players and at the same time likely possessing the capability to actually complete this trial for someone.

The other 99% consist of the dregs who manage to wipe to AV, run around in gear I wouldn't even troll with and lack any kind of common sense to what they're doing. If you're doing a shout, this is what you end up with unless you hand pick the alliance - problem with that is most people who you're going to hand pick are already either a) doing this shit for people in their LS or b) not going to pass their 2-3-4m Dyna run so they can "possibly" get to lot a Sagasinger or crap archon item or get paid 1m.

If SE isn't making ADL easier to kill/farm/etcetcetc and I end up being wrong, you all on Lakshmi can let me know of it forever and ever.

[Spira]

How can you quantify in gil an item that never winds up on the market though?

How many people here are actually going to farm ADL to sell marrows?


I get SE's demand for balance, but how does this make sense? One person 2boxing can literally do ALL of the legwork for PW on their own, and then rally the troops for 3 PW fights (hold 2 PW pop items, and then have a 3rd sitting on the NPC ready to pick up). The relic upgrade requires rallying troops for 14 hours, a full week 2 hours a day. Emp trial...well you just sit on ffxiah shouts and wait for rex/alima, or camp bazaars for an item thats constantly being generated.

nitpicking. even if u only had one character soloing most of ZNM (which is very likely to be honest, especially up T3 at least. maybe not T4), you can have that 1 person hold 3 pop sets. Key + 3 colored seals + 3 trophies. he'll just have to head back to get the pop item each time round.

i believe the mythic requirement is pretty fair given that Mythics still get the short end of the stick as far as base weapon acquirement goes. Hopefully Nyzul 2 will alleviate this problem by creating a new constant supply of Alexandrite and pushing the price down.

If more people get Mythics, more will build popset for T3s for kill trial. and they can in turn use those trophies for future PWs. It would definitely increase the supply of PW popsets, and introduce a fair number of Mulcibar Scoria into the game for self upgrading or for sale.

There should technically also be increased demand to fight PW now because he's a lot more accessible and some people would want his title for the Atma.

[Colenzo]

I really don't see the huge problem with 5 ADL kills for some of the best melee weapons in the game. I know that I'm not bothering with 99'ing my aegis until they make PLD more useful. /emoaegisangstwhydidiupgradethisthing

[Churchill]

I think for the most part people will still be spammin' Shoha though. The best weapon in the game is sort of a misnomer when you consider that it very likely isn't.

I would assume a 40% Metsu would be Shun, Apoc, Yoichi/Anni (Maybe? I don't know how Last Stand/Triple Arrow Formation attack fares against them), Mandau over Rudras@40%?

Kaiten won't beat Shoha unless attack capped, and Masa is still better for Shoha. OATGS/Rag for Reso spam, Sphrai for Shijin, Excal for Requi, Brovura for Upheaval, Gungneezy for Stardiving, oh and Gjallarhorn for...recasting songs from Daurdabla.

Sure, often they are the best weapon for using another WS, but to argue that they are the best weapons because they're getting a 40% boost (as I've seen argued) is sort of a fallacy. Unless 5 Umbral Marrows makes your weapon shit death with its native weaponskill I can't really understand the argument against a moogle just handing you the 99 version. (Kidding, I don't mind doing something. Something that I can low man and not waste others time so I can epeen and use a merit ws)

[NynJa]

I really don't see the huge problem with 5 ADL kills for some of the best melee weapons in the game. I know that I'm not bothering with 99'ing my aegis until they make PLD more useful. /emoaegisangstwhydidiupgradethisthing

Its 5 per weapon tho...not 5 per group