Test Server Findings

[Churchill]

There's good info in the Test Server Voidwatch thread.

Bottom line though, much harder. Most of VW can be survived with good stuns, or the equivalent of good stuns. Mantis doesn't hit for 400 through blocks, but he does hit for 400 unblocked. I've seen other mobs hit non-PLD for 650+. That's not a lot of breathing room if you pull hate. Not going to go over all the fight info for Mantis who was definitely the toughest we found, but he easily surpasses Voidwrought and would probably toss Voidwrought's shit. Rocl and I gave it a good go with more than one strategy.

As far as will people buy the items? People buy entire weapons off me, people buy pop sets/singles off others. There isn't anything that isn't sold in this game, and with the difficulty of VW, the lack of people who have T4 access and the increased difficulty ahead...yes. If they can be sold they will be sold. There's plenty of shitty katana's out there waiting to be upgraded.

[Slycer]

If they can be sold they will be sold. There's plenty of shitty katana's out there waiting to be upgraded.

Agree. Depending on difficulty to obtain, 50,000 or more per plate wouldn't be unreasonable (50,000 would be 75 million gil total). Of course, we're all assuming this will come from Voidwatch, which we don't even really know yet.

[Gokulo]

I've been having problems getting test client to run (crashes every time, past when you click play on test server, after POL closes and FFXI window opens), so while I'd like to try a couple fights, I can't, at least not until I figure out what the issue is.

Did you unpack and copy all three .zip files? My mistake was assuming that it's 3 archives of same folder that will unpack together but it's not. Also make sure to copy them from somewhere and not unpack into the test server client folder.

[Slycer]

Did you unpack and copy all three .zip files? My mistake was assuming that it's 3 archives of same folder that will unpack together but it's not. Also make sure to copy them from somewhere and not unpack into the test server client folder.

I'm pretty sure, but not positive, that I did it correctly. I unzipped them all separately into a temporary folder and then moved the unpacked files into the FFXI Test Client folder. I'll go back and check tonight... if it doesn't work, I can always try on another PC. Wouldn't the update process have gotten screwed up if I screwed something up? Because it went through the update process fine when I went to log into the test server, it just crashed after the update completed when FFXI tried to boot (tried a few times and gave up).

[Valisk]

Agree. Depending on difficulty to obtain, 50,000 or more per plate wouldn't be unreasonable (50,000 would be 75 million gil total). Of course, we're all assuming this will come from Voidwatch, which we don't even really know yet.

50,000 sounds very unreasonable. I was thinking more between 5-15k. I don't think there are that many people would would pay 75,000,000 for 3-4 Base Damage and +2 <insert attribute here>. You have to realize that people paid that much/and higher upfront for Relics/Mythics, because the initial stages gave you access to an exclusive WS, stat +20 atk/acc, and occasional 2x-3x procs.

It won't have this "balancing" effect that everyone speaks of because Lv 90 Empys already have the unique WS, ODD, and 88.2% of the final attribute prior to the gil sink stage. 50,000 ea./75M total is definitely unreasonable for 3-4 base damage and +2 str/dex/agi. Unless they exclusively allow the Lv 95 versions' ODD to apply to WS or change the %'s and/or duration of ODD, I don't see a realistic market for 50,000g heavy metal plates.

[Slycer]

50,000 sounds very unreasonable. I was thinking more between 5-15k. I don't think there are that many people would would pay 75,000,000 for 3-4 Base Damage and +2 <insert attribute here>. You have to realize that people paid that much/and higher upfront for Relics/Mythics, because the initial stages gave you access to an exclusive WS, stat +20 atk/acc, and occasional 2x-3x procs.

Well, first off, it would be a gateway to level 99 weapons. Even if its just more DMG/stat boosts at 99, you're probably talking a 15%-20% difference in DMG rating between 90 and 99, which is fairly significant. Second, Abyssea has created a lot of gil for a lot of people, and I can't see the prices settling below Dynamis currency prices unless the drop rate is extremely high. Currency are hovering in the 12-15k range, at least on my server. What I was saying is that if the drop rate is low enough to make people want to buy instead of farm themselves, there will be people who are willing to pay that much. Even if it's just a small fraction of people who are willing to pay that much, it could still be a while before prices come down - there are probably a thousand or more Empyrean weapons on each server. Again, this is all assuming the drop rate is low enough (relative to the 1500 requirement) that people are encouraged to go out and buy instead of farm themselves.

Edit: And if the drop rate is high, I wouldn't be surprised if we see the same thing that happened with elemental geodes happen here -- i.e. ridiculously high prices for a while immediately following the update, dropping to something more reasonable after that.

[Gokulo]

Edit: And if the drop rate is high, I wouldn't be surprised if we see the same thing that happened with elemental geodes happen here -- i.e. ridiculously high prices for a while immediately following the update, dropping to something more reasonable after that.

Well, that's what happens with any high demand item after the update, so there's not even much arguing about that.

[Atoreis]

In terms of "Game Breaking", I really would agree that the "china" body is the most broken thing ever. Any job that can wear it, particularly WAR, will be able to gain tremendous TP with that body piece. Assuming there's no cap to what it can give, we're looking at 28TP or more from anything that hits for 200 and above, and that's just from the conversion on the body piece. Add in Retaliation and the natural 2-3 TP from being hit...

I am pretty sure DRK will have much more use out of it because of lower DA and no retaliation. The boost to gaining TP will just be much more significant for DRK. I can't even imagine the fun from soloing with Apocalypse and this body. Back to back Cata to heal myself while getting damage ( and boost delirium if they fix it ) to get tp lols.

[Byrthnoth]

I pretty much see it the same way as Slycer. It's going to depend on drop rate how quickly things like that drop off, and it's going to temporarily fuel cruor-related inflation.

[Valisk]

Well, first off, it would be a gateway to level 99 weapons. Even if its just more DMG/stat boosts at 99, you're probably talking a 15%-20% difference in DMG rating between 90 and 99, which is fairly significant.

I agree with everything you said except this. Well, I agree about it being a gateway but I don't think people will drop 75M on Lv 95 if they don't know what the Lv 99's will be. You're going to spend 75M on speculation? What if the final versions are +20 <attribute> 1-3 increase in damage, hell let's go with 5. Abyssea has created a lot of gil but 75M is no walk in the park. If those are the final numbers, I'm hardpressed to think people will buy them in bulk rather than do the event(s) that drop them and build them up over time. With people having 4, 5, 6, 7, 8+ emps. And 75M each?! For +2 attribute, 3-4 base damage. Nah.

Edit: Maybe after the 99 stats come out, if they are substantial, I can see people dropping boat loads of gil. But for us to already have the bulk of the potential of the weapon... prior to the gil sink stage... Either way, there will be gil to be made. Will almost be certainly smarter to sell plates as soon as the update goes live until it tapers off then start collecting them for yourself or purchase them with the profit you made from selling high so you can buy low.

[Slycer]

I mean, let's just say there are 500 people looking to upgrade from 90 to 95 on a server. That's 750,000 heavy metal plates. This is all hypothetical, but let's assume this does come from Voidwatch and the average drop rate is something like 5 per person per fight, with ~15 people per fight. That's 75 per fight, which means 10,000 Voidwatch battles would need to be done with 15 people to create enough plates. Again, all hypothetical, but there is certainly potential for the demand to last a very long time depending on how this plays out.

[shaddix]

This. Although according to someone, the french one was in. So they just skipped the english ones. Cause you know, who gives a shit about americans, right?

Why should they bother translating something that may not even make it into the game?

edit: doh, I can't read apparently, I quoted you saying they translated it to french. I dunno wtf then. Maybe they are french-japanese?

[Valisk]

I mean, let's just say there are 500 people looking to upgrade from 90 to 95 on a server. That's 750,000 heavy metal plates. This is all hypothetical, but let's assume this does come from Voidwatch and the average drop rate is something like 5 per person per fight, with ~15 people per fight. That's 75 per fight, which means 10,000 Voidwatch battles would need to be done with 15 people to create enough plates. Again, all hypothetical, but there is certainly potential for the demand to last a very long time depending on how this plays out.

I still say the difference between heavy metal plates and dynamis currency is that with relics, the currency is require to access a powerful weapon. With empys, you already have the powerful weapon before you reach the "currency" stage. Don't get me wrong, I think demand will be high, I just don't see it translating to people spending 75M on minimal upgrades. Guess we'll have to wait and see the drop rate to make any truly accurate statements.

[falseliberty]

After months of easy mode this sounds preety awesome
I will say i dont like the idea of of blowing mils on emp upgrade items.
its what i find very wrong with relic building and mythic (alex wise)

[Slycer]

You're going to spend 75M on speculation?
...
And 75M each?! For +2 attribute, 3-4 base damage.
...
Either way, there will be gil to be made. Will almost be certainly smarter to sell plates as soon as the update goes live until it tapers off then start collecting them for yourself or purchase them with the profit you made from selling high so you can buy low.

I'm not saying I would, and I'm not saying anyone should but I'm saying that there are people out there who would probably be willing to. I mean, you could look at it from the other side, speculating that the level 99 weapons will be so amazing that 50k each is actually a bargain and the prices will go even higher once the level 99 stats are revealed. I think it's fairly obvious that they will just be further stat/DMG upgrades, but who knows?

As far as the DMG boosts go, I think the lowest increase is +4 DMG, and you should really look at it more on a percentage basis. They add like 7-11% DMG depending on the weapon. Scythe and polearm got something like +14 DMG, for example.

I think we agree generally that they are going to sell for more than a couple of gil because the demand will be high. 50k was just a number I threw out there. It's going to be more than just a few thousand per plate, though. With so many people upgrading Empyreans, and so much gil floating around, I don't think anyone would be motivated to sell for just a couple thou.

[Byrthnoth]

I still say the difference between heavy metal plates and dynamis currency is that with relics, the currency is require to access a powerful weapon. With empys, you already have the powerful weapon before you reach the "currency" stage. Don't get me wrong, I think demand will be high, I just don't see it translating to people spending 75M on minimal upgrades. Guess we'll have to wait and see the drop rate to make any truly accurate statements.

It depends on supply. Let me assure you that there are definitely more than a handful of people on every server willing to spend 150-200mil on the stat upgrades that you downplay. It will only take a few to monopolize the markets and keep prices high if the supply is low.

Now that I think about it though, I bet the metal comes from WoE zones. It's consistent with the whole theme of WoE zones (coins, etc.) and the Empyrean WS-only weapons come from WoE.

[dasva]

Precentage dmg isn't always the best to look at here. It wont come anywhere near close to reflecting the percentage it will increase your dmg. If you do want to do percentage change I'd look at how much it will change the percentage of your full base dmg with typical high end builds for both melee and ws.

Also gotta remember alot of people stopped at 85 anyways. So really comes down to will the demand from a small handful of people who have lots of gil to blow and can't wait and don't want anything else will outdo whatever the supply ends up being. Short term sure. Long term I think not but who knows

[Slycer]

Now that I think about it though, I bet the metal comes from WoE zones. It's consistent with the whole theme of WoE zones (coins, etc.) and the Empyrean WS-only weapons come from WoE.

Not impossible, but I can't really see the WoE and Empyrean weapons both being upgraded in WoE. Unless maybe the WoE weapons are going somewhere else, though that wouldn't really make sense. As far as lore goes, there are some loose ties between Abyssea and Voidwatch, but there are also loose ties between Voidwatch and WoE.

[Valisk]

Out of curiosity, how much do you guys think beastmen seals, kindred seals, kindred crests, and high kindred crest would go for it they were sellable through bazaar only? Given the same drop rate that they are right now.

[Slycer]

Precentage dmg isn't always the best to look at here. It wont come anywhere near close to reflecting the percentage it will increase your dmg.

Oh, I know this. I was just saying that because Valisk was saying that it was +3-4 DMG flat for the various Empyrean weapons, whereas only the smallest 90-95 upgrade is +4 DMG (and the highest is +14).