Test Server Findings

[Nightfyre]

Atori-Tutori ??? has approximately 25000 HP and there is a cap of 100~ damage done (per hit) on it. Multiple Spinning Dive/Tachi: Fudo/Thunderstorm(lvl 5)/ES Thunder V always did less than 100 dmg, Nether Blast 100 dmg, Predator Claw (3 hits) 250 dmg, Rush (5 hits) 480 dmg and Feint+SA+AC+Berserk Evisceration 555 dmg. (all of these attacks were done by behind to avoid Guard)

SEBW Kclub zerg

[VZX01]

yfw it has anti Soul Eater mechansim.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...6GvdFlpcbCjr2V

[Nightfyre]

Spoiler: show

Hundred Fists with Asuran spam!

Requiescat is also looking like 1.0 fTP, I'll add a few more samples then edit them in here.

EDIT:

Spoiler: show

D 43, 71 MND

374, 345, 382, 388, 380, 332, 373, 370, 354, 386, 355, 341, 360, 373, 379, 346, 358, 349, 386, 382

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention, I was on DRK for this test so don't forget Critical Attack Bonus II.

[Atoreis]

Anyone know if there is some update for altana viewer? I think I wrote something about Spira made one but I cant find it.

[Khamsin]

You didn't account for alpha. 107 * 0.85 = 90.95 => 90

Maybe SE didn't account for it, either, and they said 17% because they forgot how their own formulae work.

On another note, were they tested on different level mobs to be sure that part of it isn't special somehow?

[Colenzo]

So is the sword WS just complete shit then?

[VZX01]

Maybe SE didn't account for it, either, and they said 17% because they forgot how their own formulae work.

Or simply : They don't adopt our complex model, but it's correct enough to state their intent.

On another note, were they tested on different level mobs to be sure that part of it isn't special somehow?

That's like experimenting to test whether F=m*a works differently on stone compared to apple.
Just stay on Occam's Razor principle : if it perfectly fits the current model, I don't see why we should develop another model.

So is the sword WS just complete shit then?

I don't see how you can say any of these WS are shit. They are far from it. In fact, like I've said earlier, I've got this feeling they just tack a dummy modifier on test server and later change it on live servers.
The fact that WS mod can go up to 100% will cause the small difference in weapon damage is irrelevant to its total base damage.

[Colenzo]

Spoiler: show

Hundred Fists with Asuran spam!

Requiescat is also looking like 1.0 fTP, I'll add a few more samples then edit them in here.

EDIT:

Spoiler: show

D 43, 71 MND

374, 345, 382, 388, 380, 332, 373, 370, 354, 386, 355, 341, 360, 373, 379, 346, 358, 349, 386, 382

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention, I was on DRK for this test so don't forget Critical Attack Bonus II.

well i was only saying that because of this post

[VZX01]

well i was only saying that because of this post

Why is that?

- 71 total MND is way low for anyone to consider the stats of MND WS gear
- 43 base damage sword is just smell lv75-class weapon
- It's 1 hit, though it's critical. You must remember there is another 4 hits to come (+1 if DW)

[Nightfyre]

So is the sword WS just complete shit then?

Second best sword WS at the very least, and still significantly better than anything else we get. Attack boost property will probably be the deciding factor vs CDC, though I haven't taken the time to properly sit down and compare the two so take what I'm saying there with a grain of salt for now.

Resolution is... you guessed it, also 1.0 fTP. Not going to do any tests for 200/300 fTP right now.

Spoiler: show

D 85, 117 STR, 8% critdmg, all tests done at 100.0 TP
672, 683, 678, 673, 663, 664, 673, 659, 683, 681, 659, 665, 677, 675, 659, 660, 671, 633, 657, 663

I'll do scythe, see if I can test sword/katana further, and any follow-up tests needed tomorrow.

[Yugl]

That's like experimenting to test whether F=m*a works differently on stone compared to apple.
Just stay on Occam's Razor principle : if it perfectly fits the current model, I don't see why we should develop another model.

That only applies if two competing theories are indistinguishable from what I understand. I'm not sure how a particular equation can "work differently" in two different instances aside from the variables you substitute (mass/acceleration). If you mean correctly predicting one instance and not another, then you conclude that the formula is not universal (And since universality if the objective, you can conclude that it is wrong assuming all premises are definitively true).

As for the sword WS debate, do not forget that he was on DRK (ATT buffs on?), which gains considerably more attack than traditional sword wielders (BLU and PLD). The best part about Almace is the boost to pDIF upon critical hits. Well fuck, if that is critical hits on the first swing, then unless the sword WS critical hits (I haven't seen the new WS's properties), fuck that shit.

[Nightfyre]

well i was only saying that because of this post

I was SAing level 0 shit on DRK with a Koggelmander and no MND gear... That's not indicative of what the WS does in practice (read: real weapons/WS gear, all hits landing) at all.

[Colenzo]

Why is that?

- 71 total MND is way low for anyone to consider the stats of MND WS gear
- 43 base damage sword is just smell lv75-class weapon
- It's 1 hit, though it's critical. You must remember there is another 4 hits to come (+1 if DW)

oh those were just the single hits from the weaponskill then? i misunderstood

[VZX01]

That only applies if two competing theories are indistinguishable from what I understand.

Which is precisely what I'm saying. So far, it fits with our developed model

I'm not sure how a particular equation can "work differently" in two different instances aside from the variables you substitute (mass/acceleration). If you mean correctly predicting one instance and not another, then you conclude that the formula is not universal (And since universality if the objective, you can conclude that it is wrong assuming all premises are definitively true).

It's not that one particular equation can "work differently".
It's about our modelling of the observable.

Continuing with my physics analogy, F=m*a is good enough for anything graspable by our hands, but not anything on that of size of sub-atom. But we still use F=m*a for modelling our day-to-day occurence because :
- it's more simple.
- It's very improbable we meet a case where an object moving relatively close to the speed of light.

And what I really want to say that there's still a chance our model is wrong, but it's very improbable. But still, why change if our model is suffice to explain anything, for now. (There's not enough evidence to change that yet)

[Nightfyre]

As for the sword WS debate, do not forget that he was on DRK (ATT buffs on?), which gains considerably more attack than traditional sword wielders (BLU and PLD). The best part about Almace is the boost to pDIF upon critical hits. Well fuck, if that is critical hits on the first swing, then unless the sword WS critical hits (I haven't seen the new WS's properties), fuck that shit.

>_>;

1.0 fTP, 5 hits, 100% MND mod

Again... Koggelmander, 71 MND, level 0 mobs, 8% critdmg, explicitly testing for fTP only. In practice it'd be more like 2~2.1k damage at capped cRatio single-wielding on BLU, how it fares on harder mobs is yet to be seen (attack boost based on TP).

EDIT: Does not natively crit.

[Colenzo]

:3 would you go try it on something like kaggen and tell me how the damage is? XD

[Nightfyre]

Sure, I'll grind that out 2 WS at a time right after the obligatory useless Abyssea screenshot.

[Byrthnoth]

So we don't know the fTP of Tachi: Shota, right? If that's still the case when I get home from work, I'll go figure it out. Seems kinda important.

[Yugl]

VZX, we can talk about it in PMs if this post doesn't wrap up the conversation, but what you show is in accordance with what I'm saying. If the model does not work for one set of cases, but works for different set ("Distinguishable" sets), you can say that they follow different rules (Hence, the lack of universality I mentioned). From what I understood of his post, he was just asking whether alpha varies in accordance with the mob you are fighting (To which I would say no). The equation need not change if that were the case though.

@Nightfyre: I understand that, but my concern was whether BLU meets the requirement of capped pDIF on future difficult content. The attack boost description is hopeful though. Though in retrospect, the worry isn't founded since your typically are procing or nuking VW NMs. Abyssea favors CDC given the critical hit damage and rate boosts. Old content might be an opportunity to cap pDIF (Never checked the DEF of those mobs).

[Colenzo]

Sure, I'll grind that out 2 WS at a time right after the obligatory useless Abyssea screenshot.

lol!!