The Official Forums III: It goes on forever, now.

[Vlorsutes]

So the solution isn't education, it's to lower bar? Wonderful.

If you want individuals to learn, you have to supply them with an outlet to at least convey their ideas. You give them a place to ask questions or state their opinions, and then show them empirical data to show why they're wrong, they might learn, or at the very least you'll know you've tried to get through to them. If you just nuke the post though without even letting it flourish, then they'll have no idea why they're wrong and thus probably continue going on with their own beliefs.

Do I find everything that's said over there right? Of course not, but all the same, they still deserve some kind of outlet all the same in my opinion.

[Byrthnoth]

They don't flock to Alla because they're naive players looking to share their experiences and learn. They flock to Alla because the forums are conflict-averse and the few good players there don't really try anymore.

Blow by Blow:
* The thread meanders along and is fairly reasonable at first.
* Zelduh trolls (or is serious, Poe's Law/can't tell) for a bit and people ignore him initially.
* Raelia takes the bait, and then Saeval, Raelia, and Catwho are the voices of reason for a while. Let that sink in.
* More PUP defenders/users show up because they feel Raelia misjudged the reason why PUP isn't good. Isn't this the point where you could lock the thread for being offtopic?
* Zelduh continues to breathe/post. He would have been killed with fire by the users you've banned for being mean by now.
* Almost everyone attempts to re-cast the problem with PUP design as a problem with PUP players, while Raelia is the only one who actually pointed to a mechanics issues that limit PUP. This basically means they're used to playing with shit players or don't realize they can change jobs. If I wanted to have a good PUP, I'd go level PUP and buy the attachments. In two weeks, I'd have a good PUP.
* People hide behind the "It's my opinion" line the same as ever, so people who disagree with them can't say they're wrong and will be seen as attacking their opinions. They might as well be doing #NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement
* Jinte demonstrates the single largest problem with Alla posters, that they don't actually know what a good player looks like.
* Most of the people that post in the thread don't seem to realize they can job change without dramatically decreasing their skill.
* Now that Jinte has turned it into a discussion of "What job is the best DD when I'm solo?" Saeval starts to charm in with RDM and BLU stuff.
* Catwho reveals she uses Vermeil Bhuj.
* People with Can-do-spirit and gumption assert the Alla "Player > Job" Mantra (to the roaring applause of the crowd) like they can't change jobs and fully level/gear it within two weeks.
* Vlor tries to control it. I feel like I'm watching Scotty in the engine room all over again.
* Catwho posts a parse where a PUP comes in second in damage... to a Black Mage...
* Raelia shows up to defend/explain away a DRK that came in at least third to a Black Mage.
* Jinte realizes she has no way to quantify how much damage the Puppet does and returns to baseless assertions.
* RDM Melee discussion.

You wouldn't need to ban everyone to make the boards reasonable. You would just need to ban the people who are belligerently stupid and unreasonable. If Alla didn't have Zelduh, that thread probably wouldn't have devolved into shit in quite the same way. This failure to ban people who are too dumb to change is and has always been one of Alla's biggest weaknesses. The amount of bad advice these people generate is tremendous.

I am glad those forums exist so they aren't over here bothering the mods, though.

[Yugl]

Wouldn't bother me. I would love to roast them.

[The Meat Toilet]

Generally, when it comes to the really nutty stuff, it's the same people saying the same things every time. Over and over. Forever. Sometimes all over every forum they can lay keyboard on. I doubt it's an issue of education regardless of which direction you want to approach it from.

I see it more like a crazy homeless man screaming on a populated but not crowded street-corner. At night, he crawls into a space between two buildings and sleeps. He poops in a nearby dumpster.

You can take inventory of his rant about how aliens control Zooey Deschanel and use her to speak in code with their sleeper agents located in every major city in the world, note that he is totally insane, pointlessly debate the existence of aliens or maybe even the existence of Zooey Deschanel with him, try to jab him with a syringe of Haliperidol but discover the totally fucking insane run faster than expected, then finally give up and just evict him from that area by playing the recent She and Him album really loud.

You will succeed gloriously and he will run away screaming that he "will not hurt the little children" because of the "bad thing bad witch war hell evil no love shake". Does this accomplish anything other than eliminating the crazy from that one area, though? Not really.

This doesn't make the source of the craziness any more sane or even make the world more sane as a whole, it just makes that homeless guy pack up his insanity and move. The crazy homeless guy has crazy homeless convictions. He might move somewhere better. He might move somewhere worse. He might pee in your car if he starts sleeping in the parking garage. He might cook my cat over a campfire if he spends his whole day next to my place.

Every crazy homeless guy needs his street corner to scream on and a dark, forgotten place in which to sleep and eliminate waste. The more such places that exist far away from anybody's anything of import, the more likely it is that the crazies will end up there rather than somewhere they would have a chance to actually harm a productive discussion by screaming the same crazy thing for the nineteen-billionth time and then ruin other stuff by pooping on a seesaw in the park at 2 AM.

Also, I guess that metaphor got a bit away from me.

[Vlorsutes]

* Zelduh continues to breathe/post. He would have been killed with fire by the users you've banned for being mean by now.

Truth be told, the only person that's been banned for being "mean" that frequented the XI forums was Rog, which wasn't by me, and the reason he was finally banned was because he was harassing people through PMs. Wasn't because he was just being "mean" by being blunt and straightforward with people, but this was legitimate harassment.

Banning people for "stupid" posts or topics is just something that won't happen because of the rules and guidelines we admin follow. We can try and keep everything in line, but unless their posts break forum rules, we can't and won't ban them.

[Yugl]

Have you considered suspension rather than complete termination?

[Vlorsutes]

Have you considered suspension rather than complete termination?

Mutes and the like fall under the same restrictions as bans. Mutes just come in as initial punishments for rule infractions, then we ban if, after the mutes have been lifted, they continue violating rules.

It may be a system you guys don't agree with, but that is how it is.

Anyway, I'm sure there's got to be more interesting stuff happening on the official forums than me explaining Zam's policies on banning people >_>

[Churchill]

More like not banning mirite

[NynJa]

Mutes and the like fall under the same restrictions as bans. Mutes just come in as initial punishments for rule infractions, then we ban if, after the mutes have been lifted, they continue violating rules.

It may be a system you guys don't agree with, but that is how it is.

And thats why people say "lolalla" and "go back to alla"...

[GoggleHead]

Speaking of shouty crazy homeless people, Starcade is posting again. Didn't he get himself banned a while back?
http://darkrenegadesmusings.blogspot.com/

[Byrthnoth]

On a scale of 1 to Funny, him resubscribing in direct violation of the ToS definitely rates a Funny.

Actually, skimming his posts it looks like he was never fully banned? Maybe just from the official forums.

[Divinius]

Reading his "first week back" post didn't sit well with me, and I didn't even realize why at first:
http://darkrenegadesmusings.blogspot...week-back.html

Then I saw it:
http://xkcd.com/859/

[Mairja]

lol!

[The Meat Toilet]

I'm surprised by how coherent and sane Starcade can be when not talking about people violating a Terms of Service thingy or stalking vocalists. I kept expecting him to break into that certain tone only used by normal folk when faced with a very nice hat made out of your dead wife, only with more furious froth, but he kept it together.

Unsurprisingly, he's spending a lot of time making a bad dagger. Somehow, like learning a serial killer's mother never loved him, learning that Starcade is making a 2-4 attacks dagger brings the whole crazy puzzle together.

[Karbuncle]

I found some stupid. Something so stupid Its the first time I've openly showed anger in a heavy light on the forums in months :D

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...107#post311107

Some guys saying anyone asking for the "Bond" Requirements to be lowered should go to WoW because we're asking it to be handed to us. The thread originates from the idea that the Bond requirements are too high since Exp is Doubled and NPC lasts longer, That even if you talk to your NPC Every day and do all the quests, You're still significantly behind bond for the 50 cap when you reach it.

Its a perfectly reasonable request.

So go read this if you want to see me angry. Though I've edited out most of my insults, and by the time anyone reads it I'll probably edit it so clean you couldn't even see my anger :D

[Septimus]

I found some stupid. Something so stupid Its the first time I've openly showed anger in a heavy light on the forums in months :D

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...107#post311107

Some guys saying anyone asking for the "Bond" Requirements to be lowered should go to WoW because we're asking it to be handed to us. The thread originates from the idea that the Bond requirements are too high since Exp is Doubled and NPC lasts longer, That even if you talk to your NPC Every day and do all the quests, You're still significantly behind bond for the 50 cap when you reach it.

Its a perfectly reasonable request.

So go read this if you want to see me angry. Though I've edited out most of my insults, and by the time anyone reads it I'll probably edit it so clean you couldn't even see my anger :D

No, it is a perfectly unreasonable request because it doesn't help me! Only things that help me and only me should be implemented into the game.

[Gokku]

Oh god idc igf its from starcade but just the thought of the level of rage this could induce had me laughing so hard.

"You motherfuckers have to wish you could start resorting to grief-invising (thereby preventing most door/NPC interactions) to disrupt people's play because you think this shit is FUNNY?"

id be in tears as some jp is rage clicking off invis and you just keep casting that shit.

[The Meat Toilet]

For better or worse, as was mentioned in that topic, anybody with a quarter-of-a-brain could and would put the kibosh on that kind of tactic using /blockaid. Some part of me finds it funny that the Development Bros and a mentally ill man in a blind rage use exactly the same logic with exactly the same logical failings.

Speaking of rage, though...After the vaguely contented and mostly coherent post by him a week ago, it warms the cockles of my heart to see Starcade return to his former levels of fury.

He is too angry to comprehend what he reads. He is too angry to write anything comprehensible. His anger is once again a sad, little world that he lives within and there are no sausages served there.

He is home again. A choir of furious angels scream at each other in cacophonous rage to welcome him.

[Churchill]

Holy shit I got an honorary mention in his last post. I'm fucking famous bitches!

[Karbuncle]

I Don't read his blog but i have to wander if I've ever tickled his fancy enough to rage about me... Seems unlikely.