The Official Forums III: It goes on forever, now.

[Yugl]

I'm not trying to defend Pchan and the like specifically, but when you start seeing people calling for collective reports, dropping epic fails like Kuishen's posts, and other juvenile antics that have transpired in these threads, you're not exactly helping that stereotype. They're more than capable of being idiots on their own. If you want to be better, prove it.

Prove it by sitting idly as they hog resources on the most influential forum to SE? Collective action is what happens when you introduce a forum for democratic politics sir, I don't see why you would expect any less.

[arus2001]

Show me proof that anything Korpg, Analehlm, Pchan, or even things from Starcade, Rosina, Naturebeckles and of flavors of the month has said or done been implemented by SE and I might be more inclined to believe "drastic measures" could be taken up. Otherwise, I'm just seeing a lot of irrational fear and the desperate acts such solicits.

[NynJa]

I'm not trying to defend Pchan and the like specifically, but when you start seeing people calling for collective reports, dropping epic fails like Kuishen's posts, and other juvenile antics that have transpired in these threads, you're not exactly helping that stereotype. They're more than capable of being idiots on their own. If you want to be better, prove it.

you're right, and letting idiots be idiots is what led to the only buff RDM is getting be orientated towards melee RDM.

Show me proof that anything Korpg, Analehlm, Pchan, or even things from Starcade, Rosina, Naturebeckles and of flavors of the month has said or done been implemented by SE and I might be more inclined to believe "drastic measures" could be taken up.

I can tell you that Analhelm singlehandedly got the thread related to the "prism staves" shut down...does that count?

[Yugl]

Show me proof that anything Korpg, Analehlm, Pchan, or even things from Starcade, Rosina, Naturebeckles and of flavors of the month has said or done been implemented by SE and I might be more inclined to believe "drastic measures" could be taken up. Otherwise, I'm just seeing a lot of irrational fear and the desperate acts such solicits.

I don't have to prove that their ideas get implemented; specifically, because they rarely propose ideas. They oppose them. Do you want proof that they have effectively opposed and undermined the implementation of very good ideas? See the combination staff thread that was locked (In which Korpg tried to troll bait and Analehlm ultimately ruined). Even in the currently existing Functional Changes thread by Byrthnoth, Analehlm brought the thread dangerously close to off topic bickering, which would likely result in a lock. The same goes for the Alexandrites thread.

Edit: I don't even care about arguing against Pchan in most cases. This is strictly talking about a narrower subset of people.

As per request:

Spoiler: show

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/167/korpg2.jpg

[arus2001]

And if they're trolling and you guys are buying into it, is it their fault or yours? Believe it or not, it's very much possible to ignore someone. You can try the scorched earth approach of fighting with them to the bitter end while tossing reports around and getting threads like that locked, or just let them talk to themselves. We're dealing with SE here, a company that's historically ignored us. Do you honestly think the devs will focus solely on feedback from a region not their native tongue? Or perhaps more appropriately, do you believe the CT doesn't have their own filter to blur out the bullshit you're all so adamantly fighting against? "Hey guys, we had like 50 people approve of this idea!" "Dude, Analhelm said no! We can't show it to the devs." "Oh, right..." While I won't call the CT pro players, I'd like to cut 'em a bit more slack than that. Plus we have no clue the extent of the red tape they're bound by.

[NynJa]

Or perhaps more appropriately, do you believe the CT doesn't have their own filter to blur out the bullshit you're all so adamantly fighting against? "Hey guys, we had like 50 people approve of this idea!" "Dude, Analhelm said no! We can't show it to the devs." "Oh, right..." While I won't call the CT pro players, I'd like to cut 'em a bit more slack than that. Plus we have no clue the extent of the red tape they're bound by.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...e_Sandwich.jpg
remember how that worthless waste of code was devised? By the alla crowd at one of those conventions.

[Yugl]

And if they're trolling and you guys are buying into it, is it their fault or yours? Believe it or not, it's very much possible to ignore someone. You can try the scorched earth approach of fighting with them to the bitter end while tossing reports around and getting threads like that locked, or just let them talk to themselves.

You're obviously not speaking based on the facts, because if you did, you would know that I ignored Korpg's attempt in my thread and that I haven't involved myself in the other threads mentioned. Anahlem took an initially potent discussion and twisted it off topic until it turned into him convincing himself of not having an illogical argument. In other words, you didn't read the thread, so you're grossly uninformed and it shows.

We're dealing with SE here, a company that's historically ignored us. Do you honestly think the devs will focus solely on feedback from a region not their native tongue?

It doesn't need to be "solely" focused on one region or another. If there appears to be considerable opposition to a proposal, whether real or not, it is influential. The effect of appearance is there regardless of whether you respond to the opposition or not. If you think I'm outlandish for insinuating this, you would be more outlandish for thinking SE conducts in depth research into all the responses for every single topic and checks the merits of both sides.

Or perhaps more appropriately, do you believe the CT doesn't have their own filter to blur out the bullshit you're all so adamantly fighting against? "Hey guys, we had like 50 people approve of this idea!" "Dude, Analhelm said no! We can't show it to the devs." "Oh, right..." While I won't call the CT pro players, I'd like to cut 'em a bit more slack than that. Plus we have no clue the extent of the red tape they're bound by.

I don't know what you mean by CT since you never gave the full extension of the term followed by the abbreviation in parenthesis. Regardless, the rhetoric posed by the individuals is threatening, not because of individual opposition, but because the intent of their claims is to stir the whims of individuals in opposition to a subset of people with ideas. True enough, this historically, has repeated itself. It didn't matter that an individual KKK member made a statement. It didn't matter than TPN leaders made a statement. It's that repetition of a particular rhetoric fueled mass actions, which does have an impact. You don't worry about the statements of extreme communists or Nazi parties (In the US, specifically; the exception being immanent threats) because their words generally lack the rhetoric to invoke mass changes.

Your next line of argument might be to draw a comparison between the Nazi/Communist parties and the specific subset of people in question, but what you then fail to realize is that opposition is precisely the reason that people rarely listen to these parties (Rather than the actual ideas they hold).

[arus2001]

Yeah, I'm sure it took hours, nae, DAYS to code that cheese sandwich up.

That situation kind of miffed me, too, especially since it was one of those rare direct interactions with the devs. However, we're not staring at them face-to-face like with a convention. And much as I hate to say it, "Can we have cheese sandwiches?!" is probably easier to translate a reply for than "What's the secret to AV?!"

Personally, I'd like some sort of weekly Q&A to be had between the devs and players. The forum atmosphere is a lot more laid back than a convention and time can be taken to get all the needed translations done right. Yeah, some of the recent job Q&As had some "Who the fuck asked that?!" moments, but I don't think anyone was actually expecting a Q&A, either. In turn, SE could also try asking us things, either relative to current things or things they'd been thinking about adding. I wouldn't envy being one of the Reps at that time, but it's more focused fire than making random posts like the staff thread and hoping for the best.

Edit: And by CT, I meant Community Team.

[NynJa]

judging by the fact that somewhere along the lines, code was broken that caused cure to deal 99999 dmg to undead, I dont think it was a 30 second job to add cheese sandiches. Regardless, it was still resources wasted on creating something so fucking pointless instead of spending time doing something productive.

[Mairja]

Uhh...

Evader
Increases evade rate while decrease attack.

This just makes sense and the only piece missing between berserk, aggressor, and defender.

Link: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post197579

[arus2001]

Just by referencing Temper, the devs are unlikely to satisfy everyone all of the time. Doesn't make it useless, much as some may want to bitch and moan otherwise. Enter opinion and varying play styles. I think we can all agree that SE needs to put more attention into XI than they have, as compared to 2010, 2011 has been a pretty meh year. And it's not like we know the money isn't there, they just choose to spend it elsewhere.

[Gokku]

they ninja mod'd my sig to censor the language.... this displeases me greatly

[Greatguardian]

they ninja mod'd my sig to censor the language.... this displeases me greatly

As far as I can tell, the general rules for OF language have pretty much been as follows:

Hell: Okay
Damn: Okay
Crap: Okay
Shit: Not okay, if reported
Bullshit: Not okay, if reported / sometimes depends on the mod
Bitch as a verb: Okay
Bitch as a noun: Not okay
Fuck: Not okay
Retard: Okay
Troglodyte: A-OK and one of my personal favorites
Insignificant pile of crapcakes: Okay

The list goes on, but it's really more a matter of whether or not people will care enough to report you.

[NynJa]

Just by referencing Temper, the devs are unlikely to satisfy everyone all of the time.

Its fucking melee rdm, MELEE FUCKING RDM

[Karbuncle]

Give me an Example of idiots getting their ideas in the game!

Provides Example.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH BRO

I see whats going on here...

Some people here may take it a bit toooooo far, But really, Most of the people here don't go around the Official forums instigating shit, They only respond when the mouthbreathing morons make an asinine statement or do something stupid. Correcting people for being idiots is a far cry from bad, especially when what they are spewing is mindboggling stupid.

You brought up "Rosina, etc flavor of the week", Sure, They seem pretty harmless, until people read what they say and consider it, Then you have even more people running around, not using macros, ignoring haste armor, all because "someone on the official forums said it was okay".

With this effect me all the time? no

Will this effect me If i end up in a party with one of these idiots? You bet your ass.

So until someone shows me some evidence that everything a moron says on the internet is 100% without consequence I'll continue to call them on saying stupid shit in hopes people reading their ignorance says "Well Hey, That karb guy is right". I do my best to avoid personal insults and stick with insulting their terrible opinions... I'm no saint so it doesnt always work, But I'll try.

[Aksannyi]

I don't know, some of the way people correct others is pretty rude and it's no wonder they get defensive and then shit is stirred and threads are ruined. Doesn't take much, just one condescending post and the entire thread is a lost cause. Seen it a lot over there.

[Karbuncle]

Some people here may take it a bit toooooo far

^

I know some people just take it too far. I'm guilty of it sometimes.

[Kuishen]

My posts were all very therapeutic, I don't know what you're all talking about.

[Byrthnoth]

It occurred to me just now that I'm getting a much more positive response from my thread than I probably would have if I'd named it "Gameplay problems you can use 3P Apps to circumvent."

Branding! Curse you!

[Gokku]

It occurred to me just now that I'm getting a much more positive response from my thread than I probably would have if I'd named it "Gameplay problems you can use 3P Apps to circumvent."

Branding! Curse you!

i had to stop myself from posting in the gukumatz claim thread and turning it into a bot vs everyone else thread.