NASA goes back to the future: Airships

[aurik]

Don't worry, our need for mass quantities of helium to support a dirigible fleet will be met by the waste product of nuclear fusion reactors.

Also fucking pipe-dream. NASA would be better off working out how to effectively mine asteroids / the moon, or how to effectively harvest energy from spacecraft re-entry so that spaceflight isn't such a huge consumer of energy.

[aurik]

That TopGear episode was taken a bit beyond truth and into hyperbole. Those folks are pretty biased against electric, so you need to take their showmanship with a grain of salt.

Until about 20 years ago, battery technology was practically unchanged/unadvancing since the 1940s or something. But, in the last 20 years, there's been a tremendous push on battery tech due to both miniaturization (cellphones, etc) and car technology, since it's far easier to use regenerative braking energy to charge a battery than to reconstitute fuel. And the result really shows, as batteries have advanced a tremendous amount in the past 2 decades.

Expect that trend to continue as electric vehicles continue to increase in popularity.

[LinktheDeme]

Hydrogen is not exactly easy or cheap to produce either btw. Why do you think Fuel Cell cars haven't taken off?

Because of oil companies wanting to control the market? It couldn't be because they've bought out other oil-substitute programs that showed progress and shut them down before they could develop a cost efficient program.

[Anso]

Weren't researchers at MIT getting close to producing 100% super efficient electrolysis back in like 2008? I remember reading something about it.

[Acturus]

By the way, dibs on naming mine The Enterprise.

Pretty sure you'll be fighting the US Navy on that one, but I wish you the best of luck!

I'm calling dibs on the "Your Mom".

[Cantih]

You know, I would hate to go to jail, and I can't see the attempt succeeding.
But it might just be worth it to try and steal from a flying freight airship, just to legitimately be tried for sky piracy.

"What are you in for?"
"SKY PIRACY!"

I mean, FUCK, who the hell wouldn't.

[Moosey]

http://www.bobbis.net/media/albums/S...s/manatee2.jpg

[Serra]

Can't really say that though as there's one that already exists. It just costs like $300k.

What infrastructure do we have in place that would allow for flying cars? A car that hovers, sure that could use our current roads, but for full on flying cars.. Things like right of way, would there be designated roads (how would you designate them) or would it be "if you can get from point A to point B without crashing or harming someone else, have at it," how do we prevent people from loading their cars up with explosives and driving into buildings (we live in a post 9-11 world, it's something that would have to be addressed), drunk flying, police and how would the airways be regulated, etc. When I think of flying cars, I think of cars like the Jetsons, Back to the Future, or Fifth Element where everyone has one -- unfortunately I just can't see that being feasible..

[hey]

how do we prevent people from loading their cars up with explosives and driving into buildings (we live in a post 9-11 world, it's something that would have to be addressed)

Same way we stop people from loading their road cars up with explosives and driving into buildings.

It actually does not need to be addressed, regardless of a single terrorist attack 10 years ago.

[kuronosan]

Same way we stop people from loading their road cars up with explosives and driving into buildings.

It actually does not need to be addressed, regardless of a single terrorist attack 10 years ago.

This is actually one thing I agree with hey on. Can't stop people from doing dumb shit even with grounded cars. You can make it harder for idiots to drive them though.

[Ksandra]

What infrastructure do we have in place that would allow for flying cars?

As I said, they've already designed one that works:

Woburn, MA June 3, 2009: Terrafugia, Inc. has successfully completed the flight testing program designed for its Transition Roadable Aircraft Proof of Concept. Having been dubbed The Flying Car, the Transition completed its historic first flight on March 5, 2009 with 27 additional flights completed over the next several weeks.

The successful completion of flight-testing with the Proof of Concept concludes the first stage of a four stage process to bring the Transition into production. Work is underway on Stage 2, the Beta Prototype. First delivery is expected in 2011.

The Proof of Concept vehicle is the first and only Transition to be built thus far. It has now achieved its goals by demonstrating driving, flying, and automated transformation between the two in one integrated aircraft. The flights conducted a plan set specifically for the Transition: characteristics such as handling, performance, and take-off and landing, stability and stall were evaluated. B-Roll footage is available of representative flights. The flight-testing program demonstrated the safety of the vehicle in the air while identifying modifications that will be incorporated into the next Transition model to be built, the Beta Prototype.

Test Pilot Colonel (Retired) Phil Meteer had a positive review of flying the POC: I would like to keep flying this Proof of Concept vehicle, but it makes sense to move on to the Beta Prototype.

Categorized as a Light Sport Aircraft, the Transition requires a Sport Pilot certificate to fly. It is a two-seat aircraft designed to take off and land at local airports and drive on any road. Transforming from plane to car takes the pilot less than 30 seconds. The Transition will cruise up to 450 miles at over 115 mph, will drive at highway speeds on the road, and fits in a standard household garage. The vehicle has front wheel drive on the road and a propeller for flight. Both modes are powered by unleaded automotive gasoline. By giving pilots a convenient ground transportation option, the Transition reduces the cost, inconvenience, and weather sensitivity of personal aviation. It also increases safety by incorporating automotive crash structures and allowing pilots to drive under bad weather. Refundable airframe reservations are currently being accepted.

Terrafugia (ter-ra-FOO-gee-ah), based in Woburn, MA, is comprised of a team of award-winning engineers who have been advancing the state of personal aircraft since 2006. Founded by five pilots who are graduates of MIT and supported by a world-class network of advisors and private investors, Terrafugias mission is the innovative expansion of personal mobility. "Terrafugia" is Latin for "escape from land."

Now, is that the jetsons? Fuck no. But for the first really flying car we've gotten it's pretty damn good. (though expensive as shit as I said above but that's always the case with new technology).


You said it's way too hard to imagine possible. I think the Terrafugia proves it is possible and we're finally on our way to work towards achieving it. And it shows that flying cars are fully possible.

[Serra]

Did not know that thing even existed.. that is pretty awesome actually. That said, that is not my idea of a flying car. To me, that is a car that can change into a plane, which while impressive, is not a flying car. Even the fact that it needs an airport to take off is a testament to the fact we don't have the infrastructure for flying cars available to the masses yet. What happens when everyone can take off from their driveways? Will there be control towers scattered around neighborhoods to make sure people don't crash into each other, etc?

Don't get me wrong, I do think it's a testament to the ingenuity of humanity that there are people are trying to make flying cars a reality. But I also think that before they can be made available to the masses there will have to be a significant amount of infrastructure built to accommodate for what a drastic change it will be..

[Ksandra]

Don't get me wrong, I do think it's a testament to the ingenuity of humanity that there are people are trying to make flying cars a reality. But I also think that before they can be made available to the masses there will have to be a significant amount of infrastructure built to accommodate for what a drastic change it will be..

I don't disagree with any of that, but my objection was to your statement that, "the infrastructure that'd have to be put together to allow for it just seems way too hard to even imagine.." My point really is that anything can be imagined, and pretty much anything can become a reality (within the confines of the universe). I just think it's silly to think it's too hard to imagine, as this is just the first step. And that's something to keep in mind. The Terrafugia is the first step. Do you think when people created this:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Tnfy6DGWbn...1600/mark1.jpg

they could imagine it would ever possibly become this?

http://desicolours.com/wp-content/up...computer03.jpg

While the terrafugia isn't a "flying car" as a prototype down that road it's definitely a good start.

[Indalecia]

Cid's dreams realized!

My apologies good man, I believe you meant Setzer.

Anyone for a hand of Blackjack?

[Xantavia]

First the trains then the car!

Doc did it in the 1800's. Bring on the cars.

[kuronosan]

Considering that we went from room-size computers to finger-sized tablets I'd say Terrafugia->Jetsons isn't that unbelievable. That's not even mentioning how we've come from vacuum tubes to hyper-threaded multi-core processors and nanotechnology.

[Psion]

improving on computers does not require good faith on humanity to not be stupid, unlike infrastructure, however. And unlike computers, building said infrastructure would cost far more and probably be a loss in profits, at least for a very long time, which will be a very very long time since companies don't bother with things that don't make profits normally.

I'm sure it's doable, but I think we're gonna have to improve on autonomous driving, and flight, before we even come to the thorny issues of infrastructure. Because I'll be damned if i trust a bunch of average joes to fly anything safely in optimal conditions, much less the crazy bastards who think they can fly through a storm safely. (I seriously doubt flying cars will be above localized weather like airplanes)

[MoogleAura]

http://www.monotoni.se/bass/wp-conte...-zeppelins.jpg

Looks like NASA have been busy spying on the alternate universe.

[Kaylia]

Yeah, you're right on this.

But while it is lossy.... hmmm, did you see the recent Top Gear UK where Clarkson & May spent a day (not) driving electric battery cars?
Gasoline works because it gives out enough energy to be useful, all whilst in an easily transferable medium. Batteries can't really compete yet. Biofuels are looking like they compete with food growing space, so hydrogen looks like the next best candidate atm.

If I had to bet my money on something in the close future, it would be on electric car powered directly from the electrical grid.

I'm not saying that hydrogen technology have no future, hell, I'm actually working in a department that research hydrogen fuel cells among other thing (my job is to research new storage material), but we still seem to be far off from hydrogen car.

But this is all a derail. The airships aren't consuming it for fuel, just using it for lift, [b]you won't have to be replacing the stuff constantly, beyond leaks[b]. It's just safety/handling that hydrogen cars and airships have in common.

Well, you still have to release some gas to land. It might not be significant, but depending how high they fly, you will have to release a good fraction to land (density of air goes down as you go up, so you need a lot of gas for that)

[Psion]

It might not always be practical, but maybe they could suck up nearby clouds, condense it into liquid water, and use that as ballast? :D (lol, probably cheaper to just dump the hydrogen)

Although if you did that then you automatically have water you can convert back into hydrogen via electrolysis to lift back up...