Warning: Clipper

[Kalasin]

Except none use clipper just for that and a LOT of ppl (like me) use Windower just for more advance macros and w/o plugins.

I doubt a lot of people use windower ONLY for macros.

[Atoreis]

I doubt a lot of people use windower ONLY for macros.

You would be surprised... or maybe I would. Lets ask SE to make survey about it!

[Byrthnoth]

Barring odd times when I'm on Beastmaster, I pretty much just use Clipper for JA0wait (and only when I'm either alone or duo with someone I trust). I find I habitually run around things whether or not I have GMtool on, so sometimes I don't bother with it.

JA0wait lets me:
1) Turn around if I proc a monster at low HP and need to TH it with my WHM/THF.
2) Run while using Jigs.
3) Reposition myself (to get more monsters in parrying angle for instance) while spamming abilities.
etc.

It's almost purely a gameplay enhancer. It doesn't improve my efficiency *that* much, and it improves the gameplay value a lot. Natural windower features (like macros and fillmode) improve efficiency a lot more.

I think it's probably not a real part of the game purely because of aesthetics. A lot of animations look goofy if you run while they're happening. For non-clipper users, you can get a sense of this using Blaze Spikes and good timing. You'll end up being a sliding flaming cross for a few seconds if you start running at the right point. It's like that, except I'm dancing as I move.

Edit: And yeah, I've gotten plugin advice for windower from people in game that I would have expected to be using the official client in fullscreen mode. I think more hardcore windower use is really pretty widespread even among people that don't visit forums.

[Sho]

You would be surprised... or maybe I would. Lets ask SE to make survey about it!

I think you'd be surprised. Using Windower in conjunction with many of it's plugins makes for a way more enhanced experience over simply using Clipper functions. People are just more lenient on Windower because over 60% of the PC player base uses it. I actually laugh at my previous self between 2003~2006 when I was so anti cheating to everything.

[Atoreis]

Yeah yeah cheating is a good thing! That's pretty much obvious. Just don't make yourself ugly like Palpatine

[Darkmagi]

Too many people using clipper for them to mass ban at this point anyways. The game is dying too badly already without the loss of thousands of people.

[Gabai]

I find it much more likely that people would download clipper just for GM/JA0wait than windower just for macros. Windower even comes with a number of plugins already installed and activated the moment you launch it. I have never even turned on the speed altering portion of Clipper yet use GM/ja0wait on a fairly regular basis.

I could be wrong but something about Atoreis' post just didn't sit well with me. Not everyone who uses Clipper does it for fleehacking. GM/ja0wait are very useful tools that, in my opinion, enhance gameplay much less than windower macros.

[Esvedium]

Too many people salvage duping for them to mass ban at this point anyways. The game is dying too badly already without the loss of thousands of people.

Not that I don't agree with what you originally posted, but those that ignore history, blah blah blah.

I don't clipper often, because getting from a to b before anyone else that I play with and having to wait for them for however long it takes them to get there at "normal" speeds is almost as annoying as running at normal speeds.

[Atoreis]

I also found it funny that ppl still claiming this game is dying for like a hmmm 3 years now and yet we are getting most revolutionary solutions since like 2005 and probably more ppl are coming back to the game now than ever. Maybe this game is dying for you because you cheat to much and it's starting to get boring?

[Darkmagi]

Not that I don't agree with what you originally posted, but those that ignore history, blah blah blah.

I don't clipper often, because getting from a to b before anyone else that I play with and having to wait for them for however long it takes them to get there at "normal" speeds is almost as annoying as running at normal speeds.

I believe there are a lot more clipper users than there were salvage dupers, that and the games population has diminished severely since.

[Byrthnoth]

We're probably mostly non-JP, so they wouldn't hesitate to permaban all the users and just start shutting servers down between 3 and 8 AM JP time.

[Yugl]

I also found it funny that ppl still claiming this game is dying for like a hmmm 3 years now and yet we are getting most revolutionary solutions since like 2005 and probably more ppl are coming back to the game now than ever. Maybe this game is dying for you because you cheat to much and it's starting to get boring?

Your retaliation just gets worse and worse. First, the return of players coincides with Abyssea and increased public acceptance of cheats. Second, the type of cheating that makes games boring (The type that completes enjoyable content in rapid succession) is related to Windower, not Clipper.

Also, this game is 60% running, 20% sitting in Jeuno, 10% fighting, and 10% Mog house (General argument, not towards Atoreis).

[Esvedium]

I believe there are a lot more clipper users than there were salvage dupers, that and the games population has diminished severely since.

I agree with you on both accounts, but when I read your post all I thought of was "They'll never ban us guiz, for srs!" that was pre-salvage-bans.

[Atoreis]

Your retaliation just gets worse and worse. First, the return of players coincides with Abyssea and increased public acceptance of cheats. Second, the type of cheating that makes games boring (The type that completes enjoyable content in rapid succession) is related to Windower, not Clipper.

Also, this game is 60% running, 20% sitting in Jeuno, 10% fighting, and 10% Mog house (General argument, not towards Atoreis).

You just argued toward yourself by admitting clipper helps you with 60% of the game playtime when windower only with 10%.

[Cairthenn]

You can't possibly be serious, Atoreis? They both affect the game in different ways, it's nonsense to compare the two on a functional level.

Also, as someone who is constantly 3-boxing, a gamepad is more efficient than the keyboard for me. I can manage three characters better than most will manage one. The delay on the keyboard for switching macro bars actually slows me down.

That aside: Would one be more likely to play the game without windower, or without clipper?

[Gustave]

Your retaliation just gets worse and worse.

^

Second, the type of cheating that makes games boring (The type that completes enjoyable content in rapid succession) is related to Windower, not Clipper.

You just argued toward yourself by admitting clipper helps you with 60% of the game

Let's be honest this part of the game is lame. Half that and double everything else is much more enjoyable.


How annoying would abyssea be without fluxes

[D44kpunk]

Just think, three years ago you'd all be hated and ostracized from the FFXI community! Now there's just a guy with a trojan trolling.

you remember that you were one of those people hating and ostracizing, yes?

[Atoreis]

Ok I admit it last argument was just for the sake of argument aka trolling ( I'm serious no sarcasm ) and I'm sorry for that. I still think clipper flee hacking is lame and I will stop here. I already seems to care to much about this topic so I will just move on.

[Yugl]

You just argued toward yourself by admitting clipper helps you with 60% of the game playtime when windower only with 10%.

By your logic, plastic surgeon is the most devastating hack because it affects you all the time.

Edit: Ok, this is done.

[Tagus]

Not calling it right or wrong because I really just don't give a shit anymore, but doesn't it seem odd that this would happen right after the first open-ish conversation on BG about flee hacking?