What made you quit FFXI?

[FailureMidgard]

You'd be right if we were talking about spending a couple of hours every evening playing an MMO that would otherwise be spent in front of the TV, but we're not. We're talking about hardcore MMO'ing, which is just as detrimental in the long-term to a person's quality of life as spending ten hours each day watching the shopping channel or getting high.

I'm not sure I agree with ya here. Camping Kings was some of the least hardcore MMOing I ever did. Turn on the bot, afk and watch TV or read a book or clean the house or do homework or whatever else you need to do. Maybe there was a little shit-talking during the window too, but that rarely was able to sustain for a full 3 hours. Add in the fact that after a few weeks you had all 3 kings back to back (or needed a holding party at Khim or something) and this "hardcore MMOing" was like 90% afk.

And I don't rate the nihilism shtick as an appropriate response to anything. It strikes me as the grand-daddy of all cop-outs.

It's a perfect response to someone who rates the quality of life of someone else's life that is 100% happy by playing the "useless waste of time" card. Furthermore, it's a valid philosophical view (and it doesn't have to be related to something depressing). You can call it a copout, but the way I see it is, when you're gone there's very little that you did in life that does matter in the end, and the small bits that do will be the memories of you in the people you are close to. If you had a happy life, and you made the people around you happy, I don't see much relevance in how much time you wasted. It was your choice, it didn't hurt anyone else, etc. If what's going to make you happy is driving an expensive car that costs a lot, then I guess you have to be more productive to earn that money. If what makes you happy is significantly less pricey than that...hey grats, you get to slack off, save that money, and end up just as happy as the other guy. Feel free to call me wrong, but I think that a nihilistic view eventually leads to hedonism, and I think it's the most logical viewpoint for the majority of people (the .001% of the population that truly contributes to the future of the human race such as -insert famous scientist here- are in their own boat).

Regardless, I don't think you have much right to comment on how other people use their time as long as they are happy and not harming others.

[SquireStrat]

I think Waffles and Failure have great points and it has been enjoyable to read everyone's opinion here. I've quit multiple times and realized I just can't play this game as it takes up too much time. I've never had gear like many posters here. Only had 1 empy weapon. I've never been in a "good" ls or group over a total of about 4 years playing. My personal schedule never allowed me to game with great players that took their time online seriously where people paid attention the entire time online when doing an event and what not. All my groups were nice people, but had limited playtime or refused to push themselves to get the best gear or learn all game mechanics.

Lately I've had that itch to play again. My wife said flat out she hates the game because of the time it takes and because of how I am, I want to try and do the best I can so I'll be online all the time. I actually don't want to come back because of how people act in this game anymore. Even since Abyssea, so many people, even those considered friends, are just out for themselves and once they get what they want they either quit a group or always seem to never be available when you need help.

I'd love to play a game similar to ffxi, but with it being less demanding on time or needing people. So basically not a MMO. I was reading White Knight Chronicles is similar. Any opinions on WKC and if it would satisfy a ffxi craving?

[Draylo]

I actually don't want to come back because of how people act in this game anymore. Even since Abyssea, so many people, even those considered friends, are just out for themselves and once they get what they want they either quit a group or always seem to never be available when you need help.

So true ;/

[Rehn]

That's been happening since the beginning of time. Helped out half a dozen people camp joyeuse back in the day (06-07?) when it was considered worth it. Then when it was my turn, conveniently nobody would help. Felt pretty miserable back then.

[Noob]

Also, to Drwaffles - the vast majority of people do something that is a meaningless waste of time (and likely childish). While I personally have no desire to go back to "the good ol' days" of FFXI, to try to imply it isn't as good of a form of entertainment as whatever else I may do is just silly. If you only do productive things 24/7, congratulations I guess, doesn't sound like a very fun life to me though. Furthermore, 100 years from now, there's probably a pretty good chance your "productive" activities were as meaningless as the meaningless crap people do in an MMO. Really doesn't matter how people have fun - if you're doing something with your time and enjoying your life, I think you're winning.

^This. Sadly though, some people just don't get it. Their existence is absolutely meaningless. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter what they do, because we're all just using up the time we have to live until it runs out. It won't matter who did what. It's not going to make any difference if you choose to spend your free time relaxing in Maui at sunset or laying back on your bed enjoying a video game. It doesn't matter.

[SquireStrat]

That's been happening since the beginning of time. Helped out half a dozen people camp joyeuse back in the day (06-07?) when it was considered worth it. Then when it was my turn, conveniently nobody would help. Felt pretty miserable back then.

Agreed. In my opinion, the difference between then and now is it just seems no one cares about reputation anymore and people would rather just stick with 1-2 people. I'm very easy to get along with and more than willing to help anyone with darn near anything, yet I'd ask multiple people to make a group for many things (empy, limbus, nyzul, etc etc) and people wanted to only stick with who they were already with. I could've went with some groups that fell into the "really nice ls" category, but those were the ones that can't gear right or just don't take things seriously.

Quick story, I had a friend that took up Ninja. I've played with this friend for about 2 1/2 years and he's never been wtf gimp, but definitely had some "wtf are you doing" moments. Anyways, while myself and a few others were cleaving for gold chests he asked if he could leech his 80 something ninja. While in the zone we decided to do some NMs for seals too. When one was definitely Ninjutsu, we asked for him to do it and he didn't have it. I asked why, and he said he didn't want to spend the gil on the scrolls/tools. This person has had 10m+ for awhile and I would've easily lent the gil. He just didn't care.

Maybe I am a jerk, but unless I was going with a proven group seen in threads on BG or teaming with people like Byrth, Yugl, etc etc, I'd never come back. I just can't deal with the stupidity of others, even those I call friends.

[SquireStrat]

^This. Sadly though, some people just don't get it. Their existence is absolutely meaningless. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter what they do, because we're all just using up the time we have to live until it runs out. It won't matter who did what. It's not going to make any difference if you choose to spend your free time relaxing in Maui at sunset or laying back on your bed enjoying a video game. It doesn't matter.

That's a great point. I heard a quote asking, "do you live to work, or work to live?". It's sort of a difficult question where the individual needs to figure what's more important to them. I'm the type where I'm happy with simple things. I am happy with a fun video game to play, a library card, and having great dinners with my wife. But, I do want to travel out of the US before I get too old. This means I'd need to cut out leisure time and work more to make it happen. It's hard to balance the scale of work/leisure sometimes.

[Noob]

It's a perfect response to someone who rates the quality of life of someone else's life that is 100% happy by playing the "useless waste of time" card.

drwaffles has always been on the "holier than thou" train. He's always been one of BG's top tier elitists. I'm an elitist myself, but he takes it to a whole new level. I find the "useless waste of time" card absolutely hypocritical coming from a guy like him. I guess now that the elitist stigma that surrounded FFXI endgame is gone with all the players who've either gotten banned or quit, it's only natural for him to pull out the "grown up, moved on" card, even though he still posts here just as much as he ever did.

[Tagus]

That's been happening since the beginning of time. Helped out half a dozen people camp joyeuse back in the day (06-07?) when it was considered worth it. Then when it was my turn, conveniently nobody would help. Felt pretty miserable back then.

I was just thinking the same thing tbh. I had a decent group of friends for a while back in 07, but once we hit endgame, everything changed. Made another decent group of friends in 08, but the leader vanished with our bank after declaring, "there are no friends in this game". Made another group of friends in 09... and on the story goes.

[Noob]

That's a great point. I heard a quote asking, "do you live to work, or work to live?". It's sort of a difficult question where the individual needs to figure what's more important to them. I'm the type where I'm happy with simple things. I am happy with a fun video game to play, a library card, and having great dinners with my wife. But, I do want to travel out of the US before I get too old. This means I'd need to cut out leisure time and work more to make it happen. It's hard to balance the scale of work/leisure sometimes.

I live to get the most enjoyment out of my life. I work as little as possible and enjoy the simple things in life. When I get to my death bed, I want to look back and feel like "The Man" (the corporate machine that is our great, capitalism-ran country) didn't get one over on this old fellow. I want to feel like I'm in control of my life, not the community that I live in. If others choose to "conform" and live their lives as a slave, they can do slave labor to their hearts content, but it ain't the life for me.

[drwaffles]

I'm not sure I agree with ya here. Camping Kings was some of the least hardcore MMOing I ever did. Turn on the bot, afk and watch TV or read a book or clean the house or do homework or whatever else you need to do. Maybe there was a little shit-talking during the window too, but that rarely was able to sustain for a full 3 hours. Add in the fact that after a few weeks you had all 3 kings back to back (or needed a holding party at Khim or something) and this "hardcore MMOing" was like 90% afk.

You're acting as if camping HNMs was the only thing "hardcore" players did back then, which isn't true at all. Factor in daily Salvage/Assaults, bi-weekly Dynamis/Limbus runs, exping, making gil and the myriad other activities people participated in and most endgamers were typically playing for at least six hours every day, usually more in my experience.

I completely understand your point about nihilism, because virtually everyone (myself included) quite regularly winds up in the "fuck it, you only live once/nothing means anything anyway" mindset, but that doesn't mean it should necessarily be an acceptable mode of existence. What kind of awful state would the human race be in if everyone on the planet took the easy way out? Perpetual escapism and/or hedonism is, for the most part, a terribly unstable and potentially self-destructive lifestyle. And please don't twist my words and imply that I'm equating personal fulfilment with material wealth, because in my mind that kind of outlook is just as bleak as the completely self-interested one we're discussing.

You're right in saying that it's not my place to tell other people how to live their lives, but I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing your opinion on the subject. If it gets people thinking and they subsequently make some changes in their lives for the better, that's a good thing. And I'm really not trying to be high-and-mighty (aside from having fun trolling Noob for a while, because he's an idiot) - I don't consider my life to be some kind of paradigm for others to base theirs on, far from it. I just think it's an interesting discussion to have.

[Juna]

I completely understand your point about nihilism, because virtually everyone (myself included) quite regularly winds up in the "fuck it, you only live once/nothing means anything anyway" mindset, but that doesn't mean it should necessarily be an acceptable mode of existence. What kind of awful state would the human race be in if everyone on the planet took the easy way out? Perpetual escapism and/or hedonism is, for the most part, a terribly unstable and potentially self-destructive lifestyle. And please don't twist my words and imply that I'm equating personal fulfilment with material wealth, because in my mind that kind of outlook is just as bleak as the completely self-interested one we're discussing.

You're right in saying that it's not my place to tell other people how to live their lives, but I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing your opinion on the subject. If it gets people thinking and they subsequently make some changes in their lives for the better, that's a good thing. And I'm really not trying to be high-and-mighty (aside from having fun trolling Noob for a while, because he's an idiot) - I don't consider my life to be some kind of paradigm for others to base theirs on, far from it. I just think it's an interesting discussion to have.

wait is this BG or church cause Mr. preacher man Drwaffles with his sick 2.3k post count is suggesting that people spend their time better.

I know people on the spectrum of got money, cars, bitches, houses, who are depressed as shit on the verge on suicide and people with nothing who are the happiest people on earth

your statements would most likely hold ground in a perfect world where man kind wasn't ACTUALLY retarded and lived in peaceful co- existence with itself and the earth

but we a FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from that, making your comments sound like a fantasy rather then something that is down to earth

maybe in a few billion years humans will experience an evolution where we stop killing, raping, enslaving, each other but until then whether you are logged on a MMO for 6+ hours, or working 60-80 hours a week to barely support your family, gambling, getting high, getting a boob job, going to church, getting a penis job, fucking bad bitches, BDSM, jumping out of air planes, hugging trees, participating in illegal dog fights, driving fast cars, dying for your country, dying for crack, dying for bad bitches. do what makes you happy, not what others thinks makes you happy ( doesn't apply to BDSM )

[Dotsudoku]

Your first sentence alone makes it very clear that you haven't read a bit of what he's said. That's not to say that I agree whole-heartily with him, but there's little point in responding if you're not going to.. well, respond.

[Deader2818]

I wouldn't listen to Juna. He was/is well regarded as a giant douche bag/moron.

[Draylo]

That's been happening since the beginning of time. Helped out half a dozen people camp joyeuse back in the day (06-07?) when it was considered worth it. Then when it was my turn, conveniently nobody would help. Felt pretty miserable back then.

You're right, I guess it just seems like it was more commonplace after Abyssea came out and was figured out. I've helped plenty of people get weapons, or do VNM trials or whatever else they wanted just to have them ditch me w/o notice. Sadly I think the game has made me more bitter/cynical of people because of situations like that, but I guess its to be expected on an online game as its the internet after all.

[Juna]

Your first sentence alone makes it very clear that you haven't read a bit of what he's said. That's not to say that I agree whole-heartily with him, but there's little point in responding if you're not going to.. well, respond.

you say I didn't respond.... while also saying you don't agree with anyone and not contributing anything to the discussion yourself....

hmmmm...

ok

I wouldn't listen to Juna. He was/is well regarded as a giant douche bag/moron.

welcome to fairy?

rofl

[Noob]

And I'm really not trying to be high-and-mighty (aside from having fun trolling Noob for a while, because he's an idiot)

I lol'd

Says the guy who was one of BG's biggest elitist assholes for years now trying to play the RL card to justify condemning those who express their enjoyment in the things you yourself once did. Their's nothing idiotic in pointing out your mistakes, but please do continue to make stupid, empty insults towards me for pointing out the obvious. I'm not alone in my opinion either, as you can see others share the exact same opinion on the matter. Of course, you wouldn't admit to it from way up there on your high horse though, but that's ok, because the rest of us know it. Oh, and don't try to play the "I'm just trolling this guy gaiz" card now that you've had your faults pointed out. That's more a cop out than what you call a nihilistic approach to life.

[Noob]

wait is this BG or church cause Mr. preacher man Drwaffles with his sick 2.3k post count is suggesting that people spend their time better.

I know people on the spectrum of got money, cars, bitches, houses, who are depressed as shit on the verge on suicide and people with nothing who are the happiest people on earth

your statements would most likely hold ground in a perfect world where man kind wasn't ACTUALLY retarded and lived in peaceful co- existence with itself and the earth

but we a FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from that, making your comments sound like a fantasy rather then something that is down to earth

maybe in a few billion years humans will experience an evolution where we stop killing, raping, enslaving, each other but until then whether you are logged on a MMO for 6+ hours, or working 60-80 hours a week to barely support your family, gambling, getting high, getting a boob job, going to church, getting a penis job, fucking bad bitches, BDSM, jumping out of air planes, hugging trees, participating in illegal dog fights, driving fast cars, dying for your country, dying for crack, dying for bad bitches. do what makes you happy, not what others thinks makes you happy ( doesn't apply to BDSM )

^This. As I said before, now that BG's gone soft in the endgame elitism department, he's trying to condemn others for condoning how things once were. He was once "Mr. FFXI Elitist". Now he's "Mr RL Elitist". So in other words, a total hypocrite.

Oh, and while we're on the subject of RL success, it's a shame people still don't realize that money doesn't necessarily make a person happy. You can "have it all", and still be the most miserable person around. I'd rather have less and not measure up to those around me than to conform to what everyone else thinks gives you value and live my life even an ounce closer to miserable. Their's nothing meaningless or mundane about the thrills FFXI gave me, or anyone else on this board. If it makes us happy, that's all that matters, even if it's getting into petty endgame drama or aspiring to be the best "insert job" around.

As I've said before, to each his own, but don't try to come on here and look like a total fucking tool condemning something you yourself openly loved and condoned for years on end here on these forums, because it just makes YOU look like the idiot.

[drwaffles]

I didn't think it was possible, but you're actually a tier above Uryuu and Nynja on the mad-o-meter.

[Noob]

I didn't think it was possible, but you're actually a tier above Uryuu and Nynja on the mad-o-meter.

Better than the response I was expecting to get from you. I'll give you kudos points if it ends with that.