What made you quit FFXI?

[Septimus]

Who said you had to do Voidwatch ?

So content that people don't like is acceptable if they avoid doing it? In that case, people who are having bitch-fest conniptions about Abyssea and the level cap over 75 should just avoid Abyssea. They can all move to a server and make their own LS where they can sync to 53 and level up on Robber Crabs in Kuftal Tunnel for 5k per hour, do old Einherjar, Nyzul, Salvage, Limbus, BCNMs, Kings (with items from said BCs), and Stronghold Invasion. They get to be masochistic on old content, the rest of us can have actual progress- everybody wins.

[Lucavi]

Its not the same, Septimus, and you know it. These irrational people aren't complaining because they don't like the content, but are content to skip it let bygones be bygones. They complain because they don't like the content, but despite not like it, the content still exists. Because it still exists, even if they skip it, that's someone else that'll be doing it and getting gear that is superior than theirs. They then lose their sense of superiority and their ego takes a bruising, the one thing that is unacceptable for those types of people.

Its not enough to just not do it if they don't like it. They want it changed or outright removed so they can keep their pride intact. Its always been that way.

[Kalmado]

So content that people don't like is acceptable if they avoid doing it? In that case, people who are having bitch-fest conniptions about Abyssea and the level cap over 75 should just avoid Abyssea. They can all move to a server and make their own LS where they can sync to 53 and level up on Robber Crabs in Kuftal Tunnel for 5k per hour, do old Einherjar, Nyzul, Salvage, Limbus, BCNMs, Kings (with items from said BCs), and Stronghold Invasion. They get to be masochistic on old content, the rest of us can have actual progress- everybody wins.

Winner! Seriously though, I wonder just how many people would sign up for a server with only up to level 75 content if SE created a server that basically stopped there and did not have anymore progression.

[Michelob]

Its not the same, Septimus, and you know it. These irrational people aren't complaining because they don't like the content, but are content to skip it let bygones be bygones. They complain because they don't like the content, but despite not like it, the content still exists. Because it still exists, even if they skip it, that's someone else that'll be doing it and getting gear that is superior than theirs. They then lose their sense of superiority and their ego takes a bruising, the one thing that is unacceptable for those types of people.

Its not enough to just not do it if they don't like it. They want it changed or outright removed so they can keep their pride intact. Its always been that way.

So having an opinion that differs from yours is irrational? Please do tell me what opinions one should have if they wish to be considered rational, lol. Where did anyone say they wanted something removed from the game anyways? I see some people complaining about some things they don't like and others talking about some things they miss but that's about it. Of course no one is going to enjoy all of the content, everyone is different and has different tastes. In my opinion, that is the main reason behind having a variety of content, anyways.

[Mayville]

I have quit for 4 months this year due to SE refusing to accept my payment via CC-direct, Playspan/Paypal, ultimatepay, Global collect, etc.etc. I live in SEA and have played ffxi in this region since 2004 and paid SE every month for 8 years by CC. This year they made me miss several months with their new billing circus show. I am now using an online card code which works, but it has not been easy to get everything running.
If I quit FFXI eventually it will be because SE billing system makes me finally snap one day. I still <3 the game even tho Aby and the new /easymode pisses me off a tonne.

[Gredival]

Voidwatch was fun to fight when it was released first, but the RNG killed it. Seriously who wants to go 150+ on one mob just for a piece of gear.

Which was specifically done because the format was more accessible and designed to be pub spammed, like Abyssea, so to keep items rare it had to be artificially adjusted down.

You could have the accessibility of Abyssea with crappy drops, or take front loaded competition and skill barriers to entry and have with better drop rates. Abyssea was the "best" of both worlds but was unsustainable.

So content that people don't like is acceptable if they avoid doing it? In that case, people who are having bitch-fest conniptions about Abyssea and the level cap over 75 should just avoid Abyssea. They can all move to a server and make their own LS where they can sync to 53 and level up on Robber Crabs in Kuftal Tunnel for 5k per hour, do old Einherjar, Nyzul, Salvage, Limbus, BCNMs, Kings (with items from said BCs), and Stronghold Invasion. They get to be masochistic on old content, the rest of us can have actual progress- everybody wins.

The argument if you don't like it, you don't have to participate in it works better when the top tier system is over-exclusive rather than over-inclusive. Arguably there was a lot more alternative non-competitive content for people who chose not to do Kings than there is competitive content for people who choose not to do Voidwatch.

Except the explicit point of a world spawn system was to promote zero-sum exclusivity that the HNMLS had to fight for. So recreating it artificially means nothing.

Its not the same, Septimus, and you know it. These irrational people aren't complaining because they don't like the content, but are content to skip it let bygones be bygones. They complain because they don't like the content, but despite not like it, the content still exists. Because it still exists, even if they skip it, that's someone else that'll be doing it and getting gear that is superior than theirs. They then lose their sense of superiority and their ego takes a bruising, the one thing that is unacceptable for those types of people.

It's not about ego; your assumption only makes sense if the only people who preferred this gameplay were at the top and liked it merely because they were at the top.

However regardless of hierarchy, the gameplay loses something of value without competition. Would you like to tell me that playing Counter-Strike against AI is the same as vs. players? How about Starcraft vs. AI? Look at WoW servers which all function on non-competitive instances, but can also include PvP. Even though the two endeavors of PvE and PvP are unrelated, the gameplay and environment changes because there is the possibility of competition somewhere. There was a dynamic element to making the PvE in XI include competitive claiming that was lost when the game transitioned away.

Moreover, using myself as an example, it's not about being the top. It's about putting meaning behind the gear and the grind. I whole-heartedly embraced the Kings system even when it meant my homegrown Linkshell of Sky noobs spent 6 months in Aery for only three claims because retards in my shell would craft instead of spamming windows. It's not just staying better than others. If I suck I think I deserve to get crushed until I get better and deserve to be on the winning side. It's about players getting rewarded as they deserve, not arbitrarily where leeches can win at the RNG and shitty players are given crutches until they can beat content they cannot handle. Kings weren't perfect at that no, but they were definitely amongst the best content in XI to attempt that.

Since quitting XI, I play games that have explicit ELO/MMR ratings. I'm not top of the ladder, and that doesn't bother me. I'm willing to work my way up and accept it when a better rated player proves why he's better rated by thrashing me. I don't mind being rated low, don't mind that people know where I'm rated, or that they can look at replays of my gameplay and post a Youtube video picking apart why I suck ass.

Winner! Seriously though, I wonder just how many people would sign up for a server with only up to level 75 content if SE created a server that basically stopped there and did not have anymore progression.

I would sign up for a rolled back server. Gear means nothing if it's constantly replaced and has no attached achievement value besides spamming temp item macros and WS macro (or if you are a proccer, the ever so difficult job of running in and out going down your every so trying list of WS). Abyssea and beyond playing the game itself has no value.

Therefore the proposed server would be superior since it would have some value coming from the actual gameplay whereas the current iteration of XI has absolutely nothing.

[Churchill]

I heard the most successful MMO never replaces gear

[Gredival]

I heard the most successful MMO never replaces gear

(Commercial) Success does not equate to quality.



(More relevant to video games? League of Legends compared to Dota. Casual catering makes more money by allowing you to market to wider audiences, but results in distinctively inferior games)

[Churchill]

idk, wow seems like a pretty solid game.

[Mrbeansman]

Why are you guys arguing with King Special Snowflake?

[Churchill]

it only seems like arguing

[Mrbeansman]

Hard to tell since Gred has spewed the same shit over and over every time this topic has come up.

[Gredival]

King Special Snowflake?

I don't understand how you make this connection. I explicitly argue against entitlement and the idea that players are inherently entitled to success and spoils. I don't consider myself a special snowflake, and I have no problem with being bottom rung on the ladder. I simply want the ladder to exist.

[Mrbeansman]

I don't understand how you make this connection. I explicitly argue against entitlement and the idea that players are inherently entitled to success and spoils. I don't consider myself a special snowflake, and I have no problem with being bottom rung on the ladder. I simply want the ladder to exist.

You seem to have this thing that you can't enjoy the game if everyone can have everything which is a very shallow position to take.

[Gredival]

You seem to have this thing that you can't enjoy the game if everyone can have everything which is a very shallow position to take.

And that is the exact opposite of the snowflake mindset. Snowflakes believe in inherent worth, a world where everyone is special and unique, and therefore everyone deserves something by default.

I believe in elitism (at least when it comes to gaming). That does not mean I think I am part of that elite, simply that I believe in differences of worth should be recognized and rewarded appropriately.

As far as whether that is shallow, why? I think what defines a game is gameplay. Good gameplay includes interactive challenges such that what you do actually matters in terms of what happens in the game... i.e. you can fail by making mistakes. A game where everyone has everything means everyone succeeds. To me that means the gameplay is shoddy if interaction is so minimal that there are no achievement gaps as a result of skill. If you think everyone who picks up a game is equally skilled, you're extremely misinformed.

[Mrbeansman]

And that is the exact opposite of the snowflake mindset where everyone is special and unique and has inherent worth and therefore deserves something by default.

As far as whether it is shallow, I think what defines a game is gameplay. Good gameplay includes interactive challenges such that what you do actually matters in terms of what happens in the game... i.e. you can fail by making mistakes. A game where everyone has everything means everyone succeeds. To me that means the gameplay is shoddy if interaction is so minimal that there are no achievement gaps as a result of skill.

In other words your still butthurt that brews exist.

[Gredival]

In other words your still butthurt that brews exist.

Moreso pretty much everything that came after Vision. 80 cap was pretty fine in all honesty, it wasn't until Scars with the ridiculous Atma and the AF3 that things really started to go downhill.

[Mrbeansman]

Moreso pretty much everything that came after Vision. 80 cap was pretty fine in all honesty, it wasn't until Scars with the ridiculous Atma and the AF3 that things really started to go downhill.

I'm curious you only hate af3 cause of the ease of which it could be obtained right?

[Gredival]

I'm curious you only hate af3 cause of the ease of which it could be obtained right?

Basically. I think it was a bit powerful, but I don't think I would have that big of an issue with any of it had the effort to reward ratio had been better.

Atma, Procs, AF3, Brew, Temp Items, Martellos, new spells and fast respawns all combined to be sort of a perfect storm.

[Mrbeansman]

I'm not saying you don't have good points. But your kings admiration is built on the faulty premise that claiming had anything to do with skill. Claiming was all about having the bots, bodies, and luck nothing more.