What made you quit FFXI?

[Gredival]

I'm not saying you don't have good points. But your kings admiration is built on the faulty premise that claiming had anything to do with skill. Claiming was all about having the bots, bodies, and luck nothing more.

Bots were overblown. I can go into a spiel about it but I've done that enough that I'm sure you know what I'll say. I'll simply say that I know that they exist, I don't approve of them precisely because cheating doesn't equate to accomplishment, but that it was still possible to succeed just fine without using them.

Bodies and luck both equated with effort. The more people and the more often you camped, the more claims you got. The willingness to stop doing stupid crap like level and get a Maat's cap and go camp was a lot more than others put in. And regardless of how hard Fafnir was on an absolute scale, you could see the quality difference between regular HNMLS campers and the pick-up scrubs who would rage it when they claimed.

[Churchill]

Damn you falling right into Coolbeans

Have Gred tell you how his LS cheated and botted and got him his King gear, but he didn't because it is wrong to cheat.

[Mrbeansman]

You know what else was overblown? The edge that atmas/temps/abyssite gave scrubs want proof go watch your average scrub group fight Apademak without a brew. Skill ladders tend to establish themselves without creating flawed content.

[Modoru]

I feel like "determination" really isn't the factor here as much as "My LS leader wants to do this event and I want points so I can get this piece the next time it drops".

[Lyltia]

I'll simply say that I know that they exist, I don't approve of them precisely because cheating doesn't equate to accomplishment, but that it was still possible to succeed just fine without using them.

Claiming without a bot is nothing but blind, impartial (not to mention improbable) statistics; not an accomplishment. Furthermore, spending 1~4 hours at varying times every day for a month to see a bot-less claim go to you is not what most people would consider 'succeeding just fine without them.'

FFXI is a game about killing things and playing dress-up with the stuff they drop. Killing things and getting gear is an accomplishment. Watching someone else kill the things you spend hours of your time for days, weeks, months on end trying and failing to claim is a failure.

Finally, if you really, truly feel that kings FFXI was the pinnacle of the game, and that everything since has irreparably tarnished its shining legacy, you are out of your mind, batshit crazy. Sure, we all got a rush out of claiming, and lived for the inevitable, sometimes brilliant drama, and felt an immense sense of satisfaction at seeing drops fall into your inventory... but it was too much. Every hardcore FFXI endgamer's RL suffered in one way or another to keep up with that shit, whether they want to admit it or not. You talk about Kings sorting the wheat from the chaff, so to speak; that's complete, utter horseshit. The only thing it did was separate those who could keep FFXI under control, and those who had an unhealthy obsession to the point where they would tell RL to fuck off, day 9 Fafhogg in 2 hours.

If you truly think that there was anything right about how things used to be, i pity you.

[Septimus]

You know what else was overblown? The edge that atmas/temps/abyssite gave scrubs want proof go watch your average scrub group fight Apademak without a brew. Skill ladders tend to establish themselves without creating flawed content.

For real. Hell, watch some scrubs fight Cirein-croin for that matter. One of our BLMs pretty much soloed three in the time that it took a scrub alliance to kill one. (And one of them had the gall to /say they were waiting for us to wipe on the first one to take it. They could barely handle the one they already had.)

[ryskar]

Everyone in my lowman ls quit at the same time for different reasons, mostly rl stuff. Six months later, some of us are back but VW is fucking awful. I have my six stones and have gotten some of the drops I wanted and it's just bad. This is mostly because my only option is shout groups; if it's not some retard warping to pick up more stones after three pops, it's something else.

[NynJa]

Bots were overblown.

No they werent...you can say "well my ps2 player claimed Nid one time, so bots suck at claiming", except the ls with the most active claim bots were getting the most claims.

[aganusn]

Hello,

I've been lurking FFXI forums for awhile because I miss the game, but don't want to actually start playing again. I'm just going to type to get some stuff off my chest. I never wanted to be the person to start a "Does anyone miss FFXI?!" thread, so I just now saw this thread and I'm taking the opportunity. I quit quite awhile ago, about 6 months to a year after the Treasure of Aht Urghan expansion.

To paraphrase: I've always been a gamer, but I missed a social life. It really is a "hate/love" relationship with games that take so much time. I loved getting off work and partying/killing NMS and HNMS (it feels so strange to type that abbreviation, lol). I had a 75 MNK and SAM. I actually just got my black belt before I quit.

Once I got my black belt, this item I had been putting on a pedestal for so long, I started using it. Then, I had one of those "What the fuck am I doing with my life?" moments. I actually made a minute section of a program the focal point of my life. Keep in mind I had a decent social life where I would meet people and hang out with friends, go on adventures, road trips etc. It turned into a back-and-forth battle: deciding what to really invest the most time in.

Once you're a higher level, it becomes pretty hard to play casually. I had demands from my LS. I would risk sleep, going to work for 10 hours with 3 hours of sleep just to stay up with my LS. It felt like a second job sometimes, but a job I loved as well.

I also really miss my old character. I sold him once I quit. It would be much easier to go back to the same character, but there's no way I'm starting over or buying another character. If I had my same Galka MNK, with his BB and Usukane (oh god....) I would love to jump on occasionally and party for hours, but I made a permanent decision and I have to live with that.

But my life is better now, so I know I did the right thing. It was just a stage in my life, and although I miss it, it's just not realistic to go back. I would compare it to meeting someone you have an insanely biological and chemical compatibility with, but you're both married or in a long term relationship: do you follow your heart or stay logical? That whole "grass is greener" BS. You know....

[Gredival]

Have Gred tell you how his LS cheated and botted and got him his King gear, but he didn't because it is wrong to cheat.

Given that I believe the impact of botting was overblown and my primary concern was playing with dedicated and skilled players, yes I had no problems joining a shell where others wasted their money on a red herring.

I didn't leech off anyone. I stayed up and adjusted my sleep schedule to camp Kings, I set an alarm to wake up every hour for windows on long NMs. Moreover, I know the exact fights that my gear came off and my Dring came off a legit claim, my Adaberk was uncontested, and my Nlegs were my own claim against an UAE NASA based shell.

You know what else was overblown? The edge that atmas/temps/abyssite gave scrubs want proof go watch your average scrub group fight Apademak without a brew. Skill ladders tend to establish themselves without creating flawed content.

For real. Hell, watch some scrubs fight Cirein-croin for that matter. One of our BLMs pretty much soloed three in the time that it took a scrub alliance to kill one. (And one of them had the gall to /say they were waiting for us to wipe on the first one to take it. They could barely handle the one they already had.)

And how many idiots manage to zombie their way through, however inefficiently, through the use of such crutches? Sure it takes them a long time, but they probably wouldn't have any chance to succeed without Temp Items and Martellos and Atmas and super refresh, or Brew. Yet they do eventually win precisely because of those things.

How many idiots get VW gear by being that leech in a group that no one notices because there are no more static groups with incentives to kick poor performers/contributors?

I feel like "determination" really isn't the factor here as much as "My LS leader wants to do this event and I want points so I can get this piece the next time it drops".

Which is a lot more than social LS people who don't want to be cogs in the system, or think that every LS exists solely to get a lootwhore leader gear, or don't like "some elitist" who tells them how to play and gear when they pay their own $11.95 a month.

No they werent...you can say "well my ps2 player claimed Nid one time, so bots suck at claiming", except the ls with the most active claim bots were getting the most claims.

No, the LS with the most bodies usually won regardless of botting. We ran off a NASA shell, despite significantly fewer bodies, by bringing 12~ more people. Even if they didn't bot, they were a significant advantage.

With claim delay all botting did was transform your random scatterplot claiming to an even distribution. But an even distribution is only a significant advantage under similar conditions. When one side has more people, even if the claim time distribution is uneven, the extra chances are more advantageous.

Furthermore, spending 1~4 hours at varying times every day for a month to see a bot-less claim go to you is not what most people would consider 'succeeding just fine without them.'

FFXI is a game about killing things and playing dress-up with the stuff they drop. Killing things and getting gear is an accomplishment. Watching someone else kill the things you spend hours of your time for days, weeks, months on end trying and failing to claim is a failure.

Yes it's a failure when you lose the claim. But, I don't believe everything you set out to do in the game should end in success, especially in the context of zero-sum competition where one one group can win.

You are succeeding just fine without bots so long as you maintain a claim rate respectable to your presence. If you go into a 100+ man Aery camp with six people, obviously you won't and shouldn't be getting very many claims. But if you go consistently with 15-20 people, you will claim a respectable amount, even without bots, so long as everyone there is actually trying to claim. That probably means clearing Darters, being smart to keep a low amount of models on screen so you can see Faf load, etc. As we're talking about a group endeavor, any claim on the part of your collective group is a success for you. Especially considering that gear should be split anyway, so someone you work with is getting rewarded (and if that's not good enough for you, it means you are moving up the line).

So what about killing things and not getting gear, ala Voidwatch?

Finally, if you really, truly feel that kings FFXI was the pinnacle of the game, and that everything since has irreparably tarnished its shining legacy, you are out of your mind, batshit crazy.

I was fine with all the content offered in CoP and ToaU and WotG. But yes, I unapologetically believe that competitive world spawns, Kings/Wyrms/ToaU Kings, were the pinnacle of content creation in XI.

Moreover it is the perfect form of PvE and is the litmus test I have applied to every MMO since then. The only possible improvement a game could make would be to allow open world PvP at world spawns and to reintroduce MPKing.

Every hardcore FFXI endgamer's RL suffered in one way or another to keep up with that shit, whether they want to admit it or not.

I'm not saying sacrifices weren't necessary. But there are opportunity costs to EVERY action. Playing XI itself, even casually, comes with opportunity costs vs. what else you could use your time for.

If someone doesn't want to put into an HNMLS, that is their choice. But they aren't entitled to top end gear without going through the motions, just because.

You talk about Kings sorting the wheat from the chaff, so to speak; that's complete, utter horseshit. The only thing it did was separate those who could keep FFXI under control, and those who had an unhealthy obsession to the point where they would tell RL to fuck off, day 9 Fafhogg in 2 hours.

It was possible to succeed in an HNMLS without a 24/7 schedule. With HNMLS obviously the more you put in, the more you get out. But isn't that how it should work? We're not rewarding who has the best excuse for not playing.

But you could always work towards a goal if you were committed to providing a minimal amount of time consistently. It's only natural it would be slower if you only played 3hrs a night vs. with all your free time.

[Churchill]

so sad lol

[D44kpunk]

itt: people think abyssea/vw is hard

ffxi right now is like hello kitty online, at least back when kings were in existence there was some sort of competition/challenge to get claim even if the mobs were piss easy, right now there isn't at all so i kinda agree with the guy but for different reasons.

[Septimus]

And how many idiots manage to zombie their way through, however inefficiently, through the use of such crutches? Sure it takes them a long time, but they probably wouldn't have any chance to succeed without Temp Items and Martellos and Atmas and super refresh, or Brew. Yet they do eventually win precisely because of those things.

How many idiots get VW gear by being that leech in a group that no one notices because there are no more static groups with incentives to kick poor performers/contributors?

And how many idiots zombied their way through Fafnir, Nidhogg, Ixion, etc with their three alliances of linkshell members that they brought? Loads.

How many utter idiots got King gear/Relic Armor/Abjurations/other rare shinies by licking their LS leader's balls and/or pretending to be a totally hot chick in the reals because there was no incentive to kick sycophants? Even more loads.

Take off your nostalgia goggles, you will find that your vision will improve dramatically.

[ryskar]

itt: people think abyssea/vw is hard

ffxi right now is like hello kitty online, at least back when kings were in existence there was some sort of competition/challenge to get claim even if the mobs were piss easy, right now there isn't at all so i kinda agree with the guy but for different reasons.

VW is not hard, it just fucking sucks.

[Kornflake]

-

[Gredival]

And how many idiots zombied their way through Fafnir, Nidhogg, Ixion, etc with their three alliances of linkshell members that they brought? Loads.

How many utter idiots got King gear/Relic Armor/Abjurations/other rare shinies by licking their LS leader's balls and/or pretending to be a totally hot chick in the reals because there was no incentive to kick sycophants? Even more loads.

I saw a lot of Linkshells that were too big for their own good and claimed because of it (and to be fair I also saw a fair bit of raged dragons, or near raged, from these claims). But these shells tended to be extremely fragile due to the long lines for gear and the high turnover from bandwagoners who realized they were going to have to put in time.

I think there was plenty of incentive to kick idiots. If you knew they weren't quality players, you cut the rotting meat so you don't have to waste gear on them over your contributing members. If your competition was good normally they wouldn't take rejects from good shells knowing those shells kicked them for a reason.

Take off your nostalgia goggles, you will find that your vision will improve dramatically.

It's not nostalgia, I loved every second playing XI, especially Kings, even after I had everything I wanted. It only became a chore after 85 cap and even then I stuck with it for years hoping that one day it would be fun again. It never was.

I knew I was going to hate it before Abyssea was even released, as soon as it was announced.

[Eanae]

Abyssea was meh at best, but void watch is probably the shittiest thing to come out of the game ever.

[drwaffles]

Abyssea was meh at best, but void watch is probably the shittiest thing to come out of the game ever.

Abyssea was vital to XI's continued existence and was fun and rewarding for a while, but I also don't think it was the best solution. I'd much rather they'd kept the 75 cap and implemented good new content whilst trying to preserve the relevance of and improve old content. Looking back at my old LJ recently I realised how many varied things there were to do at 75 and how much I enjoyed doing them. That Gredival guy is an idiot because he doesn't realise that the only people who would ever want the old HNM scene back are the 0.01% who were part of the douchey little cliques at the top of the endgame food chain, but I have to agree that I never encountered boredom or ennui during my most active years. Of course there are more factors involved than just the level cap increase, but the structure of the game and the way that obtaining/using gear at 75 worked was a very large part of why I enjoyed playing.

Whereas now the incentive to get more gear is simply to get more gear, there were actual reasons for it at 75. I wanted to improve my RDM's nuking, -PDT/MDT, Haste, Dark and Enhancing sets because it would help me to solo more NMs. I wanted those Obis and Morrigan's for my BLM because I was very keen on pumping up my nuke damage bit by bit, and HQ Enfeebling gear helped me to land Sleep, Bind and Gravity in higher-level events. The sidegrade system really worked for XI because you spent so much time building your character that you were very keenly in tune with the capabilities of your jobs. I was genuinely pleased to see my nuke damage go up a few points after accruing enough ichor to swap my Prism Cape for a Gleeman's. Now everyone's just superpowered on everything so it doesn't matter.

Nowadays if I need something it'll either involve dual-boxing Abyssea or doing Trials. On the rare occasion that I need something pre-Abyssean I can just go and destroy whatever needs killing solo because nothing can hurt me due to level correction. The game world feels empty and dead. Back at 75 I had the option of doing Campaign, solo/duo Limbus, ENMs, Big Bomb farming, meriting (Colibri/Mamool or Flans), ZNMs, SCNMs, camping NMs like Cassie, Serket or Bune, soloing Rapido, Vivian, Sky NMs, Gration, etc., trying to get a group together for Assault, Nyzul or Salvage, seeking on a job whilst I did something that needed doing in real life, and so on. It was more varied and interesting, and required actually paying attention because no one had infinite MP.

In short, I agree that endgame shells were a pain in the ass and I wouldn't want to go back to that, but the rest of the game was a lot more engaging.

Edit: Extra Credits recently did an episode on power creep, and I think it's really relevant to the last few years of FFXI - http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/power-creep

[Slycer]

Abyssea was meh at best, but void watch is probably the shittiest thing to come out of the game ever.

Opinions about Voidwatch aside, it's the first event that was ever added to FFXI that brought people together to achieve a common goal in a relatively drama-free way. Even if that was its only merit, that alone would put it far above many of the other things that have been added to the game in the past.

2009 was likely the worst year of FFXI, all but necessitating the level cap increase and Abyssea; what little was added in that year (emphasis on little) was worse than Voidwatch. While 2011 was not a great year for FFXI, I have to think that a significantly larger percentage of remaining players left the game in or because of 2009 vs. 2011.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/FFXI_Version_Update_History

[Mercilessturtle]

They didn't need to raise the level cap to add abyssea. All that accomplished was effectively removing all the 75 content that had been built up over the years, leading to the current "there's nothing to do" problem. If they had actually planned out in advance and were ready to revamp the old content to keep it relevant that would have been ok. But of course they didn't, so the "revamps" we've gotten have ranged from pointless to terrible. Basically the only event they managed to revamp successfully is nyzul.