army recruiting and the army(no im not going to join)

[Lucienne]

Paying taxes is not a active decision. Not donating money is.
Anything else?

[Celeste]

Hey and Celeste, the way you portrait reality, any person could have at some point in their life contributed to someone innocent dying somewhere, in one way or another. Did you donate money to the starving children in Africa? Well, rest knowing at least one of them died because you didn't. Stupid logic, isn't it?

You are presenting me with a straw man scenario. It is utterly bullshit, but oh so amusing so I will indulge myself. You are comparing my belief that killing someone is killing someone(No matter how you spin it) to children starving in Africa. This is actually really goddamn awesome. Let's go into more detail. You, Lucienne, are a United States Marine, you are in bumfuck Iraq somewhere. There is somebody driving towards your roadblock/checkpoint without stopping. You whip out your gun and shoot them in order to prevent them from breaking through this checkpoint you have been assigned to guard and administrate for as long as your commanding officer asks you to. You successfully shoot and kill the driver & maybe the passengers too, maybe you shoot at the engine(or whatever) and the car explodes. These people are now dead by your hands. Okay? Okay.

Now, I am me, Celeste, I wake up and I have absolutely no idea where I am. I see a bunch of people walking by. So, I'm awake, I'm at some sort of refugee camp. An African warlord had butchered a village not too long ago, and these are the survivors. Now, at this point in time, they are physically healthy. I'm sure they're shaken up because most if not all of their loved ones were butchered by the forces of this warlord, right? Okay, so there's that. I notice that I am holding something in my hand...! It appears to be a ray gun out of some cheesy b-rated science fiction film. I aim it at one of the people walking by, and suddenly they're emaciated and starving. I get off on what I just did, so I start shooting people with this ray gun that shoots out STARVATION. I don't stop until there is a continent-wide problem with African children starving to death. Is this what you're trying to suggest with this straw man scenario? Oh my fuck. I am ever so amused that you are comparing not donating money to feed starving Africans to voluntarily joining an organization for a job in which you will likely be asked to kill "enemy combatants" throughout the entirety of your employment with said organization.

[Jer]

I'm not entirely sure how I ended up trolling & owning myself. You said 92.9% of the military will see combat, whereas 7.1% will not. Ah, no, it seems as though I read that part of your post wrong. I got the two figures turned around. Not that big of a deal!

Meh, must have missed the edit part earlier. If mixing up ratios of 1:10 and 10:1 isn't that big a deal, that could explain how so many problems get started.

[Lucienne]

You are presenting me with a straw man scenario. It is utterly bullshit, but oh so amusing so I will indulge myself. You are comparing my belief that killing someone is killing someone(No matter how you spin it) to children starving in Africa. This is actually really goddamn awesome. Let's go into more detail. You, Lucienne, are a United States Marine, you are in bumfuck Iraq somewhere. There is somebody driving towards your roadblock/checkpoint without stopping. You whip out your gun and shoot them in order to prevent them from breaking through this checkpoint you have been assigned to guard and administrate for as long as your commanding officer asks you to. You successfully shoot and kill the driver & maybe the passengers too, maybe you shoot at the engine(or whatever) and the car explodes. These people are now dead by your hands. Okay? Okay.

Now, I am me, Celeste, I wake up and I have absolutely no idea where I am. I see a bunch of people walking by. So, I'm awake, I'm at some sort of refugee camp. An African warlord had butchered a village not too long ago, and these are the survivors. Now, at this point in time, they are physically healthy. I'm sure they're shaken up because most if not all of their loved ones were butchered by the forces of this warlord, right? Okay, so there's that. I notice that I am holding something in my hand...! It appears to be a ray gun out of some cheesy b-rated science fiction film. I aim it at one of the people walking by, and suddenly they're emaciated and starving. I get off on what I just did, so I start shooting people with this ray gun that shoots out STARVATION. I don't stop until there is a continent-wide problem with African children starving to death. Is this what you're trying to suggest with this straw man scenario? Oh my fuck. I am ever so amused that you are comparing not donating money to feed starving Africans to voluntarily joining an organization for a job in which you will likely be asked to kill "enemy combatants" throughout the entirety of your employment with said organization.

Yes.
To all of it.
Go live happily in your colorful bubble of self-righteousness.

[Celeste]

Meh, must have missed the edit part earlier. If mixing up ratios of 1:10 and 10:1 isn't that big a deal, that could explain how so many problems get started.

It wasn't pertinent to the post to which I was replying, but if 92.9% of the US Armed Forces are not combat troops, it fits in nicely with Eisenhower's warning of the military industrial complex. Think about it. 92.9%(No actual proof to back that number up, not my duty to prove it's an accurate number, that would fall on the shoulders of the fellow who posted these numbers to begin with) of United States military aren't combat troops. Only 7.1% of the US Armed Forces are combat troops, right? That is a massive difference between military combat troops and personnel who are apart of the military. While those numbers are more comforting than, let's say, 50% of the Armed Forces being combat troops, it doesn't ease the concern of the US military being a convoluted bureaucratic organization that isn't out there to make the world a better place.

Furthermore, it pisses me off that some military police officer can bitch about the criticisms that lowly citizens have about the military. It is quite obvious that our military is not a homeland defense force. The National Guard is not a homeland defense force. A miniscule percentage of the overall military actually guards our country. Our borders are not as protected as they could be, because our military and politicians find it more profitable to go overseas and fight in the wars being fought between other countries, or go overseas and start a bunch of shit in a region teetering on the edge of complete chaos, further ruining our international reputation. We're not peacekeepers, we're warmongers. It's obnoxious, blah, blah, blah.

Yes.
To all of it.
Go live happily in your colorful bubble of self-righteousness.

I'm self-righteous because I think killing is wrong and I don't endorse organizations that kill people in the name of whatever ideas they hold dear? I'd define myself as reasonable, but okay. Actually, no, I've had an epiphany! Praise the imaginary sky being..! It's okay for people to kill people in the name of what they hold dear. WAIT. NO. Isn't that the poster boy definition of self-righteousness? To have the audacity to go into a sovereign nation and start shooting people because they're not adhering to YOUR IDEALS, or for fuck's sake, because they disagree with you or act against you in some shape or form? What is the matter with you, Lucienne? Are you a warmonger? By your logic, lol, we should be launching a full scale invasion of Pakistan right now. We should be installing a pro-Western governor in Pakistan because they've acted against us, right?

I wish you were trolling me, but it's pretty obvious that you're not. ._.;

[AoE]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...2662522529.gif

[Lucienne]

I'm self-righteous because I think killing is wrong and I don't endorse organizations that kill people in the name of whatever ideas they hold dear? I'd define myself as reasonable, but okay. Actually, no, I've had an epiphany! Praise the imaginary sky being..! It's okay for people to kill people in the name of what they hold dear. WAIT. NO. Isn't that the poster boy definition of self-righteousness? To have the audacity to go into a sovereign nation and start shooting people because they're not adhering to YOUR IDEALS, or for fuck's sake, because they disagree with you or act against you in some shape or form? What is the matter with you, Lucienne? Are you a warmonger? By your logic, lol, we should be launching a full scale invasion of Pakistan right now. We should be installing a pro-Western governor in Pakistan because they've acted against us, right?

I wish you were trolling me, but it's pretty obvious that you're not. ._.;

Your ability to read into things is impressive, as you managed to turn three lines into an entire paragraph.
Keep up the good work.

[Nephlite]

Also gotta look at the difference between murder and kill. Murdering someone requires a specific intent to end that persons life because you felt you just had to. Killing someone by definition means to end someones life and the concept of killing encompasses murder but kill specifically as taught to law enforcement and military is to end someones life because the person you kills actions were so egregious and overt that there was no other choice but to take that persons life because you felt there was no other option.

In the course of my time spent in the military and in law enforcement, there has never been a scenario where if I had to take a persons life, it wasn't justified and there was no other option. I was shot at and attacked multiple times while I was in country so I fought back. People came at me with the intention of killing me so I fought back. Never have I ever believed that anyone I fought back against didn't have the intent to end my life or cause me harm or harm to my allies and therefore im comfortable with my belief that I acted in self defense. We're not trained to just go out and kill people outright without just cause. If you believe that, then you're an idiot and need to have someone point a gun at your ass and shoot at you.

Now I am aware there are people out there in our military who are there to assassinate and kill people but that's not what we do as a whole. But why should I assume that's a concept that's not hard to grasp by people who either never seen military action or never had to fight for their lives. I can't even count how many times I've alternatively incapacitated people with non-lethal means to spare them death and they were actually intent on causing me harm. That's your difference there between the military, insurgents, and serial killers.

[hey]

Murdering someone requires a specific intent to end that persons life because you felt you just had to.

there has never been a scenario where if I had to take a persons life, it wasn't justified and there was no other option.

In other words, you specifically tried to kill them, because...you felt you just had to?

it wasn't justified and there was no other option.

There is always another option. It is possible to protect yourself without killing anyone who tries to hurt you.

[Krandor]

There is always another option. It is possible to protect yourself without killing anyone who tries to hurt you.

No one can be this ignorant.

[Xno Kappa]

You block bullets with your faaaaaaaaaaaace!

[mallister]

so much fail in this thread. A+ bg, keep 'em coming.

[Celeste]

In other words, you specifically tried to kill them, because...you felt you just had to?

There is always another option. It is possible to protect yourself without killing anyone who tries to hurt you.

No one can be this ignorant.

You block bullets with your faaaaaaaaaaaace!

http://i55.tinypic.com/2gumpeq.gif

[hey]

No one can be this ignorant.

So if a 13 year old girl were to try to come at you with a nerf bat, you'd kill them to avoid being hurt? There's no other option, right? She's trying to hurt you, bitch got to die.

[Celeste]

So if a 13 year old girl were to try to come at you with a nerf bat, you'd kill them to avoid being hurt? There's no other option, right? She's trying to hurt you, bitch got to die.

Are you demented, hey? I'm seriously wondering that right now. This is really sad because you're not trolling. I'm opposed to killing as much as the next person. I've never suggested that we throw soldiers in prison for doing what they are legally sanctioned to do in the name of their countries, not once have I said anything along those lines. They have a job and as tasteless and sour it is to me, they are legally able to do so. It's never been an issue of legality to me. At it's essence, killing is killing, no matter which way you spin it. I pity soldiers because they've subjected themselves to it. I don't hate soldiers. They're some of the most pitiable creatures in the modern world. To be free of delusion and still pick up a weapon and end somebody's life? No other words can describe the destitution that they face with the decisions they've made.

And here you are, rambling in the manner of a complete and utter retard about little girls and foam baseball bats. They've got no say in the matter, hey. They put themselves in a situation where they are forced to kill. To me, that's the ultimate kind of mind fuck, and as honorable and idealistic as it sounds to defend your country, friends, family, and apple pie, that's the way it is. We do not stop wanton murder by throwing the book at the people that aren't the cause of the problem we're facing. We are flawed as a society and a species to deny ourselves the peace and freedom of talking shit out like the adults we're supposed to be. Centuries upon centuries of death and we still don't get that we're our own worst enemies. And if we actually do understand that, we haven't come to accept it into the core of our beings. I'm not proposing we never pick up arms again, but to say our problems are so terrible that they can't be resolved peacefully? Fuck that.

You're missing the point, hey. Cut the shit out and reflect on what you're saying, maybe you'll have an epiphany and realize how insane you sound.

[hey]

lol

[Krandor]

So if a 13 year old girl were to try to come at you with a nerf bat, you'd kill them to avoid being hurt? There's no other option, right? She's trying to hurt you, bitch got to die.

Seriously, never breed.

If you honestly want to use this statement to defend your point, there's really no point in even responding, you basically lost the argument yourself with such a moronic comment.

But just fyi, find someone on the planet who's first response while under attack from a source with lethal intent is "shoot to wound, I don't wanna kill this guy," and I'll show you a pinewood box on it's way back home to their family

[hey]

Seriously, never breed.

Don't worry, no risk of that!

But just fyi, find someone on the planet who's first response while under attack from a source with lethal intent is "shoot to wound, I don't wanna kill this guy," and I'll show you a pinewood box on it's way back home to their family

My bad, i forgot it's completely impossible to survive someone trying to kill you without killing them. Also, note that he didn't just say when someone tries to kill him, but also when someone tries to hurt him. Sorry, but intentionally killing someone in self defense, who had no intention of killing you, and you knew they had no intention of killing you is just fucked up. We're not talking about joe shmoe here, we're talking about trained soldiers. If they can't stop someone from hurting them without killing the person (except maybe as a last resort), then they are doing something seriously wrong.

[shepardG]

You remind me of ace venture hey.

[Azull]

I doubt many people are running towards our troops yelling "I WILL WOUND YOU!!!!"