army recruiting and the army(no im not going to join)

[Krandor]

2402 people died from the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Was declaring war on the Japanese in response a bad idea?

[hey]

2402 people died from the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Was declaring war on the Japanese in response a bad idea?

I've never really cared much about history, and since it happened liek 50 years before i was born, i have no idea, but if i were to venture a guess, i would say that no, it was not a bad idea.

I will however note that you are comparing apples to oranges, since a country attacking is not the same thing as a terrorist group attacking.

[Pirian]

2402 people died from the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Was declaring war on the Japanese in response a bad idea?

Two completely different situations, and if you can't seem to grasp that then there is no hope for you.

Also, the rest of the world might hate us a little bit less if we didn't try and exert our will at every possible opportunity. Now a whole generation of Afghan's and Iraqi's hate us enough to kill themselves to kill us. Protip: while Afghanistan may of had training spots for would-be terrorists, the ones actually there were not Afghan's.

[Xantavia]

2402 people died from the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Was declaring war on the Japanese in response a bad idea?

The difference there was it was a country that attacked us, not a handful of zealots. After Pearl Harbor, didn't we declare war on Japan (an actual place)? After 9/11, we declared a "war" on terrorism (an intangible idea). Can't you see the difference? It would be like saying Ed Gein and Jeffrey Dahmer killed a bunch of people, so lets start a war with Wisconsin. They came from there, obviously the state needs to be wiped out.

[notorious bum]

Feels like arguing with a Tea Bagger on terms of morality and the scope of destruction in the middle east. Who cares about those arabs. They are all sand monkeys who want to kill us for no reason. So what, they have black rivers beneath them and fields of opiates in their backyards, they are lucky we're there to protect them.

Maybe, one day they can become a stronger country like their friends nextdoor in Pakistan, whose government and military are strong and possess Nuclear Warheads to protect them from terrorists...or possibly double as a levy against floods!

If you can fucking look it up on PBS, it's probably a pretty sure fact that anyone with their ear within 50 feet of the ground has heard it

Except, no, it's not reported and anyone who would even suggest such a hidden, massive, and systemic case of waste and corruption(1.3T, in conservative estimates; ignoring the other half of the story regarding it's utter futility) would have been labeled a conspiracy theorist by govt pawns such as yourself, if it wasn't for the courage of the Washington Post editors who compiled all this data.

Even after the fact of this story's publishing, NOBODY talks about it, so therefor your theory is bonk.

If you choose to stay in the dark about shit, that's your prerogative, but don't try to come here as the expert when your POV is from the inside, looking out.


I had a meeting with myself at 3am sharp to run a scientific test involving PB, crackers, and Mawaru Penguindrum(thx Anime thread)

[Ashmada]

If we're going to treat human lives as mathematical figures, then yeah, the war on terror was an awful idea. Realistically, the single worst thing the US could have done post 9/11 was sit there and turn the other cheek. Saying that "oh a terrorist attack every 10 or so years isn't as bad as going to war" is a completely ignorant statement.

Agreed, on both points. "Turning the other cheek" is retarded and so is the idea of adding up the dead to determine right or wrong... but all that is complete misdirection in Irak's case; Irak had nought to do with 9/11!
And I seriously admire your army's propaganda machine. Nobody that isn't in the US army still believes Saddam had WMDs. Few did before the war, no one but you guys does now.

In light of that, I highly doubt "common sense" plays much part in your decision process, you aren't sufficiently informed to make a judgment on the orders you receive.


Bum: trying to play the race card is lame. Extremely lame.

[hey]

is retarded and so is the idea of adding up the dead to determine right or wrong

No one is trying to determine right or wrong. They are both wrong, end of story. However they can be compared to see which is more wrong. And unless certain lives are just worth significantly more than others, the amount killed seems like a good way to determine that. And when i see some 3k deaths, vs 100k+, i see the us government as worse than the terrorists.

Also, fairly sure notorious was being sarcastic.

[Plow]

Sigh, if only sarcasm could be properly displayed in text format, I figured quoting your post from the first page was making it blatant enough.



Honestly, zero desire to do anything of the sort, especially since what you're posting that's so shocking and revolting is common knowledge. If you can fucking look it up on PBS, it's probably a pretty sure fact that anyone with their ear within 50 feet of the ground has heard it. Hearing numbers spinned in a different way or with scary undertones doesn't change the content.

If we're going to treat human lives as mathematical figures, then yeah, the war on terror was an awful idea. Realistically, the single worst thing the US could have done post 9/11 was sit there and turn the other cheek. Saying that "oh a terrorist attack every 10 or so years isn't as bad as going to war" is a completely ignorant statement. If the US suddenly decides to go all pacifist, all we'd be doing is opening up the floodgates for more of this crap. A lifetime of bad karma from our country's mannerisms (i.e. the Team America mentality) isn't washed away if we decide to play nice one day. Fact of the matter is that at this point the US stance on how we handle foreign situations is pretty much locked into place, and has been for a long long time.

Have we as a country fucked up? Hell yeah. Almost no one can look back at Vietnam and say it was a good idea. Can you look back and say that the invasion of Afghanistan in response to an act of war against our country was a bad idea? Sure you can, and it can just as easily be argued the other way.

If you live in this country, you're gonna take the good and the bad about how we do things. Or are we going to now say that we shouldn't have gotten involved in the World Wars because Americans got killed defending a foreign country?

I have a question for you:

What did bin Ladin want to achieve with 9/11 that was not achieved?


answer:

Spoiler: show

absolutely nothing, we gave him EXACTLY what he wanted

[Gadritan]

no one but you guys does now.

?

Don't know a single person that believes that.

[Weederr33]

This is getting intense. Damn....

[notorious bum]

Bum: trying to play the race card is lame. Extremely lame.

Yes, however, it was only a piece of my satirical rant and a much more valid reason behind the plight of the arab world(accompanied by their differences(lol) in religion) than that damn boogeyman we call 'terrorism' that only seems to exist in countries that have awesome real estate/resources.

[Ashmada]

No one is trying to determine right or wrong. They are both wrong, end of story. However they can be compared to see which is more wrong. And unless certain lives are just worth significantly more than others, the amount killed seems like a good way to determine that. And when i see some 3k deaths, vs 100k+, i see the us government as worse than the terrorists.

Yeah, no. Doesn't work like that. It's a cliché, but you just can't weigh lives or assign value to them. Intention (and initiation) matters more than numbers, when it comes to such events... though, as you said, both are wrong.
Determining which is "more wrong" is a somewhat futile exercise in the end, but collateral vs intentional civilian deaths? Collateral has to be the lesser evil, regardless of numbers. It's "1st degree homicide" vs "criminal negligence resulting in death": both are horrible, but if one's worse it's deliberate murder.

Also, fairly sure notorious was being sarcastic.

/facepalm
If english's your native language, you're intellectually lazy, pretty damn thick and we're done. If it isn't: "playing the race card" means "claiming racism on your opposite's part", not "being racist".
Have a pat on the back for your impressive sarcasm detection skills, now; that was a hard one. Couldn't've done it without you and so forth.

Gadritan: Krandor apparently does, confer previous page.

[Elvis]

"Collateral damage" is a political term.

When you launch a missile into a crowded street to kill a terrorist, you're going to hit a lot of innocent people in the process. At least, from my experience with observing the Israel-Palestine conflict, I think 'collateral damage' is bullshit.

[Celeste]

My little brother wants to join the Armed Forces when he gets out of high school. I'm supportive of the bugger, and I'll support him as he gives himself an irrevocable case of PTSD, but is it really worth it? I've had a friend die in Afghanistan, and his family still has a black coffin in the front of their house in remembrance. Friends have come back from overseas and they're fucked in the head beyond belief. Is 30k+ a year worth an extremely high chance of being brutally murdered? I respect servicemen and women, and I hate to say this, and I really do mean that, but you're essentially killing fellow human beings. You're giving yourself over to a bureaucratic organization with more limbs than I care to count, and they don't give a damn about you. You're killers in their employ. Sure, there is pride in it. Yes, my ancestors have fought in American wars since the Revolutionary War, but do I honestly believe it is worthwhile? No, and I also believe there are better options open to anybody that have enough of a backbone to go looking for them. You can work it out. It may take longer, there may not be as much security as there would be in a employment field based around human ignorance, hate, and fear, but you can certainly work hard and make yourself into the person you want to be without needlessly bathing yourself in the blood of other fuckwits that speak another language and adhere to different, yet equally insane ideals as you do.

I am sick to death of hearing from brainwashed lemmings how they're fighting in conflicts throughout the world for people like their families or me. Also, real life experience = we stupid fucks.

[Nephlite]

3000 or so deaths every 10-20 years from terrorist attacks would be far, far better than the 100k+ people that have died in the name of fighting terrorism in the last 10.

So yeah, even if that was what they are doing (it's not), it'd still be fucking stupid.

9/11 could happen every single year, and still less people would die as a result than do now because of our wars.

Right there folks. Let's all just pussy-up and let people rape us. Does more harm to fight back then it does to just take it. STOP RAPE! SAY YES!

[shepardG]

My little brother wants to join the Armed Forces when he gets out of high school. I'm supportive of the bugger, and I'll support him as he gives himself an irrevocable case of PTSD, but is it really worth it? I've had a friend die in Afghanistan, and his family still has a black coffin in the front of their house in remembrance. Friends have come back from overseas and they're fucked in the head beyond belief. Is 30k+ a year worth an extremely high chance of being brutally murdered? I respect servicemen and women, and I hate to say this, and I really do mean that, but you're essentially killing fellow human beings. You're giving yourself over to a bureaucratic organization with more limbs than I care to count, and they don't give a damn about you. You're killers in their employ. Sure, there is pride in it. Yes, my ancestors have fought in American wars since the Revolutionary War, but do I honestly believe it is worthwhile? No, and I also believe there are better options open to anybody that have enough of a backbone to go looking for them. You can work it out. It may take longer, there may not be as much security as there would be in a employment field based around human ignorance, hate, and fear, but you can certainly work hard and make yourself into the person you want to be without needlessly bathing yourself in the blood of other fuckwits that speak another language and adhere to different, yet equally insane ideals as you do.

I am sick to death of hearing from brainwashed lemmings how they're fighting in conflicts throughout the world for people like their families or me. Also, real life experience = we stupid fucks.

This pretty much described me to a tee, the reasons you stated are the reasons i'm not re-enlisting, and why i'm taking the "fight" to the people that are the real cause of these fucking atrocities. i already stated i joined for the money, but as a side effect to that, I found honor and respect. I haven't deployed 4 times into combat because i fucking wanted to. But i'll be god damn if i'm gonna let the guys to my left and right who made the same stupid decision i did, go it alone. (band of brothers and all that shit)
I learned how good it felt to actually affect other peoples lives in positive ways, and how bad it felt to be made a puppet. I see alot of bad mouthing about the situation, and unfortunately it turns to the troops, since again, were the ones stupid enough to argue back, but the real fail is the politicians, and the american people as a whole, who can't ass themselves up to go vote, and to listen to ideas and re-act in appropriate ways when those ideas aren't fufilled.

I mean, fuck other than preaching to other people about places that are preaching about how bad/good things are, what has anyone of us done to improve the situation?

[hey]

Right there folks. Let's all just pussy-up and let people rape us. Does more harm to fight back then it does to just take it. STOP RAPE! SAY YES!

What?

I don't support killing rapists and anyone who happens to be around them either. There are options in between killing them+random others, and doing nothing at all.

[Celeste]

This pretty much described me to a tee, the reasons you stated are the reasons i'm not re-enlisting, and why i'm taking the "fight" to the people that are the real cause of these fucking atrocities. i already stated i joined for the money, but as a side effect to that, I found honor and respect. I haven't deployed 4 times into combat because i fucking wanted to. But i'll be god damn if i'm gonna let the guys to my left and right who made the same stupid decision i did, go it alone. (band of brothers and all that shit)
I learned how good it felt to actually affect other peoples lives in positive ways, and how bad it felt to be made a puppet. I see alot of bad mouthing about the situation, and unfortunately it turns to the troops, since again, were the ones stupid enough to argue back, but the real fail is the politicians, and the american people as a whole, who can't ass themselves up to go vote, and to listen to ideas and re-act in appropriate ways when those ideas aren't fufilled.

I mean, fuck other than preaching to other people about places that are preaching about how bad/good things are, what has anyone of us done to improve the situation?

There is no such thing as citizenry, shephardG. I gave citizenry a shot with non-profit work, and I got slapped in the face. Nobody gives a fuck. They want their television, their animu, their music, their brain dead Jersey Shore bullshit, their paychecks, as long as they get to live in a little bubble. Having stepped outside my own, and seen the sheer terror of inaction, what the fuck can I say?

The American government doesn't give a fuck about it's soldiers, and neither do the people they are purportedly fighting for. I care about soldiers. It makes me angry that so many people are going into this wretched machine and coming out fucked worse than when they came in. The world doesn't need more people with guns going into other countries and shooting each other in the name of ideals. They're bullshit and a way to cop out of being adults and talking shit out, as hard as that may be. I don't want anybody to needlessly kill. Especially for a paycheck. We have enough bastards in our world that will do it for free if given the opportunity.

Soldiers have my respect and my pity. I will never look down on them, but I will pity them for what they have lost and for being stupid enough to get into it in the first place.

/fistbump

Right there folks. Let's all just pussy-up and let people rape us. Does more harm to fight back then it does to just take it. STOP RAPE! SAY YES!

What is the matter with you, Nephlite? Why is it a matter of flight or flight? By the way, sorry, but comparing 9/11 to being raped is such a terrible comparison. Yes, 9/11 irrevocably changed our cultural identity. That much is true. I suppose it could be akin to being raped, but in another way? Not at all. We don't find rapists and brutally murder them, or pay our fellow citizens to brutally murder them. As disgusting as rape is, and as good as torturing a rapist for the terrible, terrible deed they committed may sound, it's not the solution.

[shepardG]

There is no such thing as citizenry, shephardG. I gave citizenry a shot with non-profit work, and I got slapped in the face. Nobody gives a fuck. They want their television, their animu, their music, their brain dead Jersey Shore bullshit, their paychecks, as long as they get to live in a little bubble. Having stepped outside my own, and seen the sheer terror of inaction, what the fuck can I say?

I know , but i've gotten to the point where I know that in the military, no matter how high up in the enlisted rank structure I go. I will never change the views/policies/opinions of the people who send the troops to war. I wish to god the US military was out of a job. I wish that kids straight out of high school could do 1-2 years, just to get their fitness on, just to learn how fighting in military conflicts works and then get some education and raise themselves into places where they can stop the military from ever having to take action.
I will finish my political science degree, sometime in my 30's and hopefully in my 40's i'll get into an office of some sort and work my way up to congress or senate. hard part is that I hate all political parties in america. but if i just "get out of the military" or "stay in" either one leaves me with a major problem that I can't help but acknowledge at this point in my life. bad things happen when good people do nothing. I won't be the guy who accepts. I can't do it anymore.

[Celeste]

I know , but i've gotten to the point where I know that in the military, no matter how high up in the enlisted rank structure I go. I will never change the views/policies/opinions of the people who send the troops to war. I wish to god the US military was out of a job. I wish that kids straight out of high school could do 1-2 years, just to get their fitness on, just to learn how fighting in military conflicts works and then get some education and raise themselves into places where they can stop the military from ever having to take action.
I will finish my political science degree, sometime in my 30's and hopefully in my 40's i'll get into an office of some sort and work my way up to congress or senate. hard part is that I hate all political parties in america. but if i just "get out of the military" or "stay in" either one leaves me with a major problem that I can't help but acknowledge at this point in my life. bad things happen when good people do nothing. I won't be the guy who accepts. I can't do it anymore.