Square Enix: Final Fantasy XIV 'Greatly Damaged' Entire Brand

[Katlan]

Damn, thats a huge gap between X and XII. Didn't realize it was that long between single player games

[Eaglestrike]

Damn, thats a huge gap between X and XII. Didn't realize it was that long between single player games

Because X-2 isn't being counted.

[Correction]

Because X-2 isn't being counted.

This doesn't change the fact that XII took longer to make than both X and X-2 did combined.

[scaevola]

The audience that propelled the Final Fantasy franchise to its initial success is entering its 30s, and many of us are looking for games that have actually aged with us. Atlus has actually tried to do this (Persona 3 became HUGELY popular pretty much out of nowhere because it was the first JRPG to honestly and maturely deal with mortality at an age when the people weaned on FF had started thinking about their own) and met with some success, but the real world aesthetic of SMT probably gives them a bit more flexibility.

Still, if you want to recapture the interest of someone who played FF6 all night when he was 14, you could learn a lot from Atlus and the huge risk they took with Catherine, a game made for that thirtysomething for whom stories about grey hairs and infidelity will strike a lot more closely to home than materias and evil empires. Sakaguchi, for what it's worth, understands this: for all its flaws, I for one found Lost Odyssey extremely powerful because at its core it is a Final Fantasy game about growing older.

All around the developed world today, the thirties are when people start having to honestly face the fact that soon, there will be fewer days ahead than behind. The core audience is just now entering this phase in their lives. I can't say capitalizing on this will sell more games, but it will go a long way to rehabilitating the brand, and honestly, do a huge service for a video game industry that has totally given up on challenging its audience in any way that doesn't involve pushing buttons.

[niwaar]

We need an RPG and even an MMO that has matured with the gaming industry. If XII and XIII showed us anything, they showed us that SE's game model has gone no where since 2000. We have the same JRPG as we have always had. Which is fine, but we lost several aspects of what made those first 6-10 games (depending on how much you liked 7 -10) so good. The biggest thing they had that 12 and 13 did not have was exploration and discovery. Something they actually did very well in XI. Danger, exploration and discovery were a huge part of the initial draw for me in XI and still continue to be what I miss whenever I step into any MMO I have tried since them.

The major issues with 13 were the same that were there in most of X and XII. The extremely linear path that was laid out for you meant that nothing you chose to do really mattered, and your game play experience would differ from anyone's by how much you decided to grind or if you chose to go backwards and complete some inane task simply to gain some arbitrary Xbox/PS3 achievement.

There are so many things wrong with XIV, I have said repeatedly since participating in the Alpha that SE's biggest issue with that MMO was they allowed the "FF mandate" of always fundamentally changing the core systems of each FF game to come into play. FFXI was not a perfect game, it definitely needed improvements in Battle, UI and a few other areas, but it was a good game. A niche game for sure, but what is the value of niche game with 750k+ subscribers each paying 12-20$+ a month versus a console title that sells 3million boxes for a single price? XI has always been the bastard child of the MMO industry because it was "hard" and "unforgiving to new players" but it did a lot of things right to have lasted as long as it has. Even if the numbers are now down to 300kish or lower, it still sits at a higher subscription rate than AoC and Warhammer. Much newer games that did everything wrong.

We all know what we want out of SE. That is FFXI-HD, an upgraded FFXI with a streamlined combat system that while strategic, offers more buttons to press and less "afking waiting for TP". We want a game that is not tethered to a console so we can finally stop hearing the "we can not do that because of playstaion limitations". We want a good game with a lot of interesting content to explore. Where content is not just at the end game, but part of the fun playing the game is the level up process. Where the entire game is enjoyable and social and not where its all about the rides and shows we get to see when we hit the level cap. XI was a wonder, and I know I am waxing nostalgic. But its hard not to, when you are stuck in a world of raidcraft, where content is marginalized every few months and the amount of content that is either interesting or matters can be counted on less than 10 fingers.

[Crab_Cake]

In terms of gaps between sequels - Things are a bit harder in development nowadays (especially considering SE likes to make new engine and new games from scratch starting with 10.)

For example - Starcraft 2 Wings of Liberty (Regular SC2) and Heart of the Swarm (expansion) will take nearly 2 years in between releases (SC2 has already been out for nearly a year and a half but HotS release has been confirmed for sometime next year rather than the usual 1 year in the past.)

Starcraft 1 and Broodwar took a little more than six months (same with Warcraft 3 and TFT, Diablo 2 and LoD).

Sure there are games like CoD which brings out yearly releases but the point is that it's not just an SE thing with games taking longer with games nowadays.

Should they try something else to make games faster? Well they did try using another game engine (Unreal 3) for The Last Remnant and they did confirm it sped up development greatly. The 360 version is bad but the PC version is much better.

Is SE successful with what they're doing? We'll have to see once FF13-2 and FF Versus 13 is released (and their sales.) While FF14 was a hard hit to them financially, you have to remember that FF13 was the fastest selling FF game in terms of sales on first week.

We'll have to see how people return to also purchase FF13-2 or give up on the series (if it's the same as FF13, they're somehow doing good but if no...)

Also here's someone (see the videos for proof) who has played the FF games in order (well in order they were released in NA) and also likes the latest FF games:

His FF1 experience - 5 minute mark


His FF4 experience - (It's at 4 minutes and 30 seconds)
(Take note he is called "HappyConsoleGamer" and you'll notice in the background [and from his other videos] that he seems to like everything related to console games [regardless of genre])



Here's his YT channel

Here is what he has to say about FF13 (from his "games he recently picked up" videos which he has done regularly):


He is sort of an SE fanboy though to be fair >.>:
Link to his TLR review

See there do exist people who played the older FF games but also like the newer ones >.>.

Edit - Also I'd like to point again (to those unsatisfied with the latest FF's linearity) they are implementing world maps (with controllable vehicles) in FF Versus and trying to make the game as non-linear as possible in FF13-2. Something to look out for and see how well those play out once they're released.

[Eaglestrike]

See there do exist people who played the older FF games but also like the newer ones >.>.

There are also people who have tried playing the older FF games and not been able to get far with them. Sometime after X/XI was out I went to try to beat some earlier FF's I hadn't before. I did get through all of FFV, but didn't think the story was super omgamazing or anything. And I've never gotten past when you fight the Kraken in FFVI, after multiple attempts at the game (I think I've tried 3 times and the game has never drawn me in). And I've also never fallen for FF1 either. Now I didn't dislike FFV at all, I thought it was a good game, not great, but worth the time I spent playing it for sure. So I don't simply hate all older games or anything, but I've never really gotten what people consider so special about those games. It just hasn't happened for me.

[Crab_Cake]

To be fair FF5 is the FF12 in terms of older FFs in the sense both weren't as story packed (FF4 and 6 had a lot more dialogue and things going on).

In any case, I do understand both sides. The latest FFs have been admittedly linear but at the same time I don't view the older FFs as better than the newer ones in terms of gameplay and story (and again I played all but 2 and 3).

FF1, 3(?), and 5 for example is the FF12 in terms of older games (barely any dialogue and story sort of just happened. Well FF12 did have a decent amount of dialogue but let's say not that much compared to 10 and 13.)

FF7, 8, and 9 are similar in dialogue amount and story. I played FF7 and FF9 to death when they first came out (I never really owned FF8, only rented).

I do remember not using a walkthrough (well I did check the playonline site for FF9 but no walkthrough for most of the game) and remembering accidentally finding Ultima Weapon (I thought hmm, wonder what would happen if I had the chocobo dig in that spot where that area used to exist).

So I do understand issue with the lack of the world map in FF10+ (it was fun figuring everything out in FF9. [FF9 had the most in terms of world map exploration and surprises thanks to that Chocobo mini game])

I do agree that the older FFs had a lot of good but at the same time same there's lots of things that I liked in the newer ones.

For example - FF12's gambit system made it so you wouldn't have to worry or feel bored when fighting weak monsters (instead the gambits will take care of everything). On harder fights, you still wanted to control things more directly at times so in the sense it just cut out all the tediousness from regular encounters but still kept the control in battles which mattered.

FF13 I liked the cutscene after cutscene (I bought Xenosaga III because it was advertised as having 8 hours of cutscenes >.>) and gameplay gets better later on.

FF10-2 had that epic battle system (some disliked the story but I say the story was fine considering that they did save the world already. They did throw in a new bad guy but for the most part the story was light heart which was fine IMO)

FF10-2's battle system made the game worth it IMO.

tl;dr - For me, most of the FFs have something to be liked. I mean I don't see the FF franchise going down hill (especially considering FF12 and FF13 are almost totally different games.) As for the trend in future FFs? Again they already said they'll change everything with FF13-2 (no more linearity) and they'll be reintroducing a world map in FF Versus 13 (with vehicles to control later on in said world map). Something to look out for and see how well it goes.

[Elrina]

Because X-2 isn't being counted.

X-2 isn't main sequence, it's a direct sequel of X (although for the record, it's original release date is March 13, 2003). Just like the bunch of spin off games VII had. Just like XIII-2 is.

Main sequence titles each have their own world, cast of characters, story. From game to game, each main sequence title changes. Not to mention X-2 blatantly didn't even attempt the same scope nor storytelling people expected from one of the numbered titles.

Why did it take so cursed long for XII (which didn't require HD graphics), and then XIII after it? How long is it still going to be till Versus finally arrives, and how long till whatever comes next?

I'm hoping Type-0 gets remastered for the PS3 when it gets localized, and that Versus hits before the end of next year. XIII-2, despite being a direct sequel, also seems to actually have a full game behind it instead of being a filler title. Those all hitting next year, and not being complete disappointments, would go a long way towards reminding people why we play Final Fantasy games.

And I especially hope that experience with Crystal Tools allows them to speed development of future titles, and that they don't decide they need to develop another engine from scratch any time in the next decade.

[Lordender]

SE's on barrowed time right now when it comes to XIV, its going in the right direction but we'll see where it stands over the next 6-10 months when all the next gen MMO's release such as GW, SW:ToR, I'm pretty sure drastic changes are coming to WoW in their next expansion to get some confidence back into the brand due to how many subs were lost with cataclysm.

As for the single player FF's, they just got away from what made them great, each older FF had an immersion factor because you could explore the game world with an airship and find places with strong enemies or dungeons that had treasure chests sprinkled everywhere through it. Versus 13 is supposly getting back to those roots of open world exploration and this is why the game is taking forever to release imo.

I also thought XII got a bad rap because but to be honest XII was a solid game, I liked XII a hell of a lot more than XIII because there was a ton of places to re-visit later on in the game, there was plenty of knooks and cranny's to explore and the hunt system was awesome. Ivalice proves to be such an expansive place that spans across Tactics and XII, I wish there was more games to take place there.

Give me a FF MMO thats PC only, takes place in Ivalice with modern gameplay that takes the staple mechanics that make FF what it is and you got something special.

[Mikus]

I have about 10 or so hours logged on FFXIII before just giving up. Game is uninteresting to me and I too hate the gambit system. I have only bought a handful of games since starting FFXI in 2006 or so. I loved Lost Odyssey. I never got to finish it due to my disc 4 being jacked up(bought off ebay). I also loved FFX-2. The main story was so so but I thought the battle system was great and I liked the side quests. I did truly hate the corny girly crap but the rest made up for it to me. I forget the name of the area, but it was the climbing of floors. When Nyzul Isle came out it totally reminded me of it.

I too want story, not graphics. Last rpg I bought because I heard it was an amazing game was Chrono Cross. My ps2 shitted out my first time putting that game in :/

[Ksandra]

My eyes are starting to glaze over reading half this shit so sorry ahead of time if this was already mentioned, BUT in respect to MMOs on consoles:

EQ had online adventures (not shared with EQ pc gamers but ya) for the ps2, and it's been a strong rumor that EQ3 (fuck ya bitches) will be multi-platformed and probably on the ps3.

Of course, SOE aren't morons and know not to make a console game that they stick on the pc and try to keep them the same.


Which kinda brings back to what other people mentioned earlier that I'd wish SE would do which is...PLAY OTHER GAMES.

You can see with blizzard that EVERY time a new MMO comes out, the devs play the shit out of it. Then they reflect. What did they like? What did they not like? What could they put into the WoW universe? What do players want out of it?

You can see them intergrate things from other mmos all the time.

Now, SE can still beat to it's own drum, but they should look to other companies to get an idea of what works and what doesn't. EQ came out before ffxi, they should have known then that SOE had the right idea. Even if they stuck with the idea that pc and ps2 play together, they should have known that pc users weren't going to be happy with being held back by "ps2 limitations"

[Ghostsix.Midgard]

Why the fuck would he say this when Yoshi P and Co. are currently trying to fix the game? What a fucking bitch move. Imagine what that does to the morale of the people who worked on/currently working on 14? You don't blame the goddam game, you blame the people who made the decision to release the game in that state.
Anyways they always have a second shot with XIV:
Launch FFXIV on PS3 in 2012 with a playable demo of Versus

To be truthful, I hate the gambit system and don't hope they continue with it. I like controlling all chars instead of just one, but not even sure if that's a common thought or if I'm just an oddball on that one.

I never understood people who complained about the gambit system in XII, just turn them off.
Turn active mode to 'wait' and it's basically turn-based as well.
Same with people complaining about the autobattle button in XIII, just don't use it.

[miokomioko]

Some people don't like to have to create self-inflicted rules and challenges to a game. They want it to be tailored to their preferred play-style. I don't necessarily blame them either.

[Ksandra]

never understood people who complained about the gambit system in XII, just turn them off.
Turn active mode to 'wait' and it's basically turn-based as well.
Same with people complaining about the autobattle button in XIII, just don't use it.

ok, and how would that make me like the gambit system?

[Elcura]

I think the point is that there are ways to play around it that the developers included, possibly just for you.

[dfdfpp]

The gambit system made the challenging fights in XII doable rather than tedious and annoying. Some of that stuff takes an hour to do WITH gambits, remember?

I always described XII's plot as "stuff happens, your characters don't really matter all that much, look a monster board" and the main allure of the game for me was the gambit strategy and the harder fights in the game. If you played on active with a faster game pace, shit tended to hit the fan much faster than you can react to it, so I really liked how you could compensate for that using gambits and keep the pace of battle swift-feeling instead of pretty much stopping the fight every time something goes wrong. The mere fact that it felt so smooth to play from when it absolutely mattered to when it didn't matter at all makes it my favorite.

Also, confused at people who think XII had no "exploration," did they actually play the game?

[Eaglestrike]

The gambit system made fights in XII doable rather than tedious and annoying (like most fights in RPG's)

Ftfy.

[dfdfpp]

Ftfy.

Well, I guess the fact that the rest are so tedious in comparison is the reason why XII seemed so cool in my mind.

[Eaglestrike]

Well, I guess the fact that the rest are so tedious in comparison is the reason why XII seemed so cool in my mind.

Pretty sure this is a good bit of it as well for me. People love to talk up the old FF's, but my experience with them has largely been frustration with their gameplay and some good parts in between. In XII and XIII, which I enjoyed both of their stories, I actually looked forward to the time in between storylines because I enjoyed the fights and traveling, whereas I was always trying to avoid these in past FF's, I loved finding that Enemy- materia...