Tanaka Rage!

[Churchill]

So how about you fucking dispute those points instead of whining about how that's not the way you like it. What evidence do you have that three botters will consistently outclaim 18 legit campers? I've never seen it.

I was in a server where NASA failed horribly and a server where NASA took over. The difference wasn't everyone running out and buying APP or Wizbot. It was whether people went out and fought for Fafnir or decided "We're gonna stop Fafnir cuz it's stupid to compete against NASA"

You don't want to do the task, you don't get the reward. It's a pretty simple policy

You've obviously never been to Garuda/Lakshmi

[Koyangi]

Everything in 1. is hypothetical and nice, however you're supporting a system that existed with it's flaws and calling people who didn't do said content due to it's many flaws inferior and/or not deserving of the gear. The system was never a competition. All you've said is you support a hypothetical situation where claiming the mob takes skill, but that isn't how it actually was.

[mallister]

if you really believe that having a bot isn't a major advantage, you're a moron, or, if this is actually your experience you guys were doing it wrong. plain and simple. sure, put enough bodies on the floor, everyone knowing how to windows work, no one afk, kill all the darters, spam voke, and you have a chance. a snowball's chance. a botting shell that does more than halfass its attendance is going to wipe the floor with you, consistently.

edited for clarity

[Gredival]

Everything in 1. is hypothetical and nice, however you're supporting a system that existed with it's flaws and calling people who didn't do said content due to it's many flaws inferior and/or not deserving of the gear. The system was never a competition. All you've said is you support a hypothetical situation where claiming the mob takes skill, but that isn't how it actually was.

Kings had a server limited spawn in a way that almost required direct confrontation with another shell. Rewards were zero-sum. You did not have a situation like in Abyssea where multiple groups could easily accomplish gearing multiple people. There were maybe five Adaberks dropped per month and the competition to get them was fierce both inter-shell and cross-shell. You had 200+ people waiting on a single night for the same thing.

I'm not saying the system was perfect, but this alone made it far superior to anything that has been introduced since Abyssea.

[Animusprime]

if you really believe that having a bot isn't a major advantage, you're a moron, or, if this is actually your experience you guys were doing it wrong. plain and simple. sure, put enough bodies on the floor, everyone knowing how to windows work, no one afk, kill all the darters, spam voke, and you have a chance. a snowball's chance. a shell that does more than halfass its attendance is going to wipe the floor with you, consistently.

There were alternative ways to get rid of the darters. After that spamming enter on chi-blast really only diminishes your chances slightly. Flooding to claim and registering first to do so isn't directly determined to how fast you can do it as it is other factors.

[Koyangi]

So you support old style HNM because it kept stuff rare. You definitely didn't because it was a competition.

[mallister]

or yeah, removing darters from dats works too, until you have the one guy in your group that doesn't and dia's them and then no one else can target them. good times, good times.

[Churchill]

5 adaberks a month? Seriously? That assumes Day 6 pops every time and every Nid dropping the abjuration. This probably never happened.

Also, in 5 years of doing kings on two servers I've never seen one spawn yellow.

[Koyangi]

Also, after they fixed Ein so you need 1 win per tier (as long as mule had all 9 clears), the chance to obtain the King Abj. was at about 1 1/2 weeks pace per Odin iirc. So it kept drops just as rare aside from the fact it dropped from a 2nd source, and people doing Odin could double dip and still do HNM. Ebody etc. still stayed relatively rare with the feather change, but it gave people who disliked the HNM system a chance at the gear.

[Animusprime]

5 adaberks a month? Seriously? That assumes Day 6 pops every time and every Nid dropping the abjuration. This probably never happened.

Also, in 5 years of doing kings on two servers I've never seen one spawn yellow.

Wish I still had the picture. Servers were shutting down and Fafnir was up with me and Eske(who was afk). Tried to MPK him before Japan realized Adamastiose was making them late to the party.


I realize you mean Nidhogg.

[mallister]

which brings up the drop rate...doesn't matter how 'skilled' you are (i.e. how many folks botting/afk fapping you have) if when you do kill <insert HNM name here> it drops shit like ehands or mbody instead of ebody/nhead/haut/whatever.

[Gredival]

So you support old style HNM because it kept stuff rare. You definitely didn't because it was a competition.

There was a direct confrontation between two parties over a limited resource where victory by one was zero-sum.

Yes claiming wasn't a competition of skill, but this was competition between Linkshells. How else do you look at it?

And this is a comparative argument. I don't have to defend that Kings were perfect, just that they were better than Abyssea. If you asked me to design the perfect end game content, I'd probably permit open world PvP so that the shells would have to directly compete with each other for claim.

Also, after they fixed Ein so you need 1 win per tier (as long as mule had all 9 clears), the chance to obtain the King Abj. was at about 1 1/2 weeks pace per Odin iirc. So it kept drops just as rare aside from the fact it dropped from a 2nd source, and people doing Odin could double dip and still do HNM. Ebody etc. still stayed relatively rare with the feather change, but it gave people who disliked the HNM system a chance at the gear.

There was no limit to how many people could be doing Einherjar. There was a hard limit on Nidhoggs set by the server. Odin was limited only by how many groups did him.

Moreover, I don't believe in giving people who want gear but don't like the content an alternative way of getting that gear. That's my whole argument against the changes to the Kings.

[Animusprime]

I camped Nidhogg for 2 years and all I got was this lousy wyrm beard?

[Koyangi]

You're in the minority belief if Kings was better than Abyssea, about the same percentage as people with a Dring. It all makes sense now.

[Animusprime]

And this is a comparative argument. I don't have to defend that Kings were perfect, just that they were better than Abyssea. If you asked me to design the perfect end game content, I'd probably permit open world PvP so that the shells would have to directly compete with each other for claim.

After all these years and after calling me a warmonger you finally see it my way? What the hell happened to you? I liked the politician better > .>

[Gredival]

You're in the minority belief if Kings was better than Abyssea, about the same percentage as people with a Dring. It all makes sense now.

Oh it's not like I pointed this out myself at least half a dozen times over the last six hours.

This isn't about popularity and democracy, this is about the quality of the game.

As I said regarding Tanaka, he put a vision for the game above preferences of the players. And I argue this does not make him wrong.

[Gredival]

After all these years and after calling me a warmonger you finally see it my way? What the hell happened to you? I liked the politician better > .>

Wasting too many hours sitting in Aery as pleebs failed at Fafnir for 59 minutes before they finally wiped. I'd rather I'd have been allowed to just stab them in the skull and take it.

[Koyangi]

I knew you were in the minority for awhile now, it's the comparison to the Dring % that I was drawing.

[NynJa]

so you enjoyed the game where you and your army of bots (which no one used) controlled the endgame content and no one else could play...must be nice when you lived in grandma's basement without any schooling or job and basically could revolve your rl schedule around kings timers.

[Gredival]

Do you want to play the RL card? The fact that I enjoy my games a certain way doesn't mean anything.

And I didn't love it because *I* was top dog. I already said I loved Kings content, even when my shell could not do Kings and lost claim every single day.

Ask Animus. We had a terrible claim rate. And even when the shell wasn't camping, I would be in Aery for the window in the offchance I could personally claim and give it to someone.