Poll- Heavy Metal

[dasva]

The let's make them throw more bodies at it mentality just discourages people who have time to get together with a few friends for a few hours and not the lets gather 18 people and hope they all on willing to do this at the same time and watch them take 1-2 hours just to get geared up and get anywhere. If I'm actually at my comp focusing on the game I'd rather be idk playing then spending most the time gathering everyone together just because the game seriously penalizes me for not having tons of people

[Draylo]

And I have to use an ally for this why? I fail to understand your logic. We cap lights, without any problems. The 1/10 depop we might have to do is fuck all compared to having to deal with retards in your alliance. We don't suck as much as others, get over it.

Get over what? I'm not the one getting worked up throwing insults and scary curse words. You seem to be the one that needs to get over it. If you can low man super easily, good for you, thanks for sharing. He was talking about future content and not now.

[Kalasin]

No, the intial arguement was there is no reason not to fill your ally with shout people if you have open spots, cause it would be wasted possible drops/some procs you can't get, which a ton of people didn't agree with.

[Draylo]

The let's make them throw more bodies at it mentality just discourages people who have time to get together with a few friends for a few hours and not the lets gather 18 people and hope they all on willing to do this at the same time and watch them take 1-2 hours just to get geared up and get anywhere. If I'm actually at my comp focusing on the game I'd rather be idk playing then spending most the time gathering everyone together just because the game seriously penalizes me for not having tons of people

If you want easy stuff Abyssea will always be there. There are still well established linkshells out there that aren't filled with randoms that get together for one thing, they do a lot of content together in the linkshell. A lot of other MMO's are like this with guilds. I think this is the only MMO I have played (maybe except FFXIV) that the community hates doing anything with each other. All other MMO's encourage guilds and make harder version fights for them that are more rewarding.

[Draylo]

No, the intial arguement was there is no reason not to fill your ally with shout people if you have open spots, cause it would be wasted possible drops/some procs you can't get, which a ton of people didn't agree with.

I was referring to this:

Well I'm not for super powerful things being obtainable by 1-3. Best shit should require 18 imho. Too bad relics and empys already can be, but future stuff should be hard enough you need the full ally.

So maybe we aren't on the same page, go away already.

[Yugl]

Even if you want to interact with the community, the expectation of 18 members per event is still stupid. The reason is because the event also set at an 18 member upper limit. In terms of LS size, this means you have the following options:
1) Recruit less than 18 => Will not meet the 18 member/event
2) Recruit 18 members => Will not meet the 18 member/event if even one member does not show up (Problematic for members looking to go on vacation or confront RL issues)
3) Recruit more than 18 members => Punish people because everyone managed to show up

[Draylo]

Why would it require exactly 18 people? I am sure he was referring to a large amount of people, so two parties+ and not the standard solo guy with his two boxed characters. 12 is an adequate number to do hard content with in most MMO's, 8~12.

[Yugl]

Who said VW requires 18 people?

[Draylo]

Um we're talking about future content, honestly if you're just arguing to argue you should stop now. Why would any future content that would be made very hard, require an exact number of 18 people? Unless the min entry requirement was 18, you don't need 18. While the guy I was quoting said things should require 18 people, I am sure he meant a larger group. 1 guy with 2 boxed mules vs two+ parties of real people.

[Amedia]

I was referring to this:



So maybe we aren't on the same page, go away already.

probably because you quoted him in your little "lol FFXI must be one of the only MMO where the community hates interacting with more than two others... It's a MMO, get over it. " Just a guess there.

[Yugl]

I'm responding to a particular post; your accusations against me are unfounded.

Recruit more people then? At least enough people to make a full ally for LS event night. But not so much that you get overflow, which is always tough to deal with.

I refuse to have a 18 people Linkshell. Not the first time I've said it, not the first one to say it. Go away.

Edit: And before you reply, we aren't the ones complaining about Heavy Metal plates and other drops. We are the ones saying we are doing perfectly fine as we are right now, and assuming 18 people per event would be normal is fucking stupid.

And that is in resonance with . . .

Well I'm not for super powerful things being obtainable by 1-3. Best shit should require 18 imho. Too bad relics and empys already can be, but future stuff should be hard enough you need the full ally.

So I'm right on topic Draylo, gtfo.

[Draylo]

probably because you quoted him in your little "lol FFXI must be one of the only MMO where the community hates interacting with more than two others... It's a MMO, get over it. " Just a guess there.

Which still applies to his post, thanks for your guess.

[Draylo]

I'm responding to a particular post; your accusations against me are unfounded.

Which is still what the person was talking about, future content.

So I'm right on topic Draylo, gtfo.

Read what I posted again, how can something require an exact number of 18 people unless its entry requirement?

[Draylo]

dbl

[dasva]

If you want easy stuff Abyssea will always be there. There are still well established linkshells out there that aren't filled with randoms that get together for one thing, they do a lot of content together in the linkshell. A lot of other MMO's are like this with guilds. I think this is the only MMO I have played (maybe except FFXIV) that the community hates doing anything with each other. All other MMO's encourage guilds and make harder version fights for them that are more rewarding.

Once again this has nothing to do with easy. This is all about time wasted getting tons of people together. That's not hard at all just time consuming. I'd much rather have it actually be difficult not just tedious and time consuming. With some sort of scaling difficulty.

As far as why the community hates it it is largely due to the fact that in order to accomplish that you either need a whole bunch of people who either happen to be able to be on at the same time, just have alot of free time on there hands or have lots of extras so you can deal with mediocre attendance and scrubs. Unfortunately the game itself and it's drop systems make that highly undesirable for many reasons. And it's not about doing nothing with anyone it's having to do something with tons of people for little in the way of reward that get's split between that huge group that people don't like

[Yugl]

Read what I posted again, how can something require an exact number of 18 people unless its entry requirement?

Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. The debate isn't whether it is possible for SE to construct an event requiring 18 members. The debate is about whether such a requirement is admirable.

[Draylo]

Once again this has nothing to do with easy. This is all about time wasted getting tons of people together. That's not hard at all just time consuming. I'd much rather have it actually be difficult not just tedious and time consuming. With some sort of scaling difficulty.

As far as why the community hates it it is largely due to the fact that in order to accomplish that you either need a whole bunch of people who either happen to be able to be on at the same time, just have alot of free time on there hands or have lots of extras so you can deal with mediocre attendance and scrubs. Unfortunately the game itself and it's drop systems make that highly undesirable for many reasons. And it's not about doing nothing with anyone it's having to do something with tons of people for little in the way of reward that get's split between that huge group that people don't like

Well if they were to continue with VW system (maybe up the drop rate) everyone gets their own rewards, so there is 0 competition. I just don't see this problem in any other MMO where people hate doing things with established linkshells (guilds). How can every other MMO have fights that require a large amount of people (while always giving lesser options, but nobody ever settles for that because they need everything in FFXI) w/o problems. If recruiting shout people in your runs is such a horrible thing, then (which goes back to what the other guy is saying) recruit intelligent players into an LS. Why do people have a problem doing new content that requires a decent sized group if there is 0 competition when plenty of other games do it?

Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. The debate isn't whether it is possible for SE to construct an event requiring 18 members. The debate is about whether such a requirement is admirable.

What number would suffice then? 3 people who two box being able to block everyone out and act like a single player game and get all the best items? Linkshells should be the standard for tackling hard content and there should always be optional content that people who prefer low man, can do, but not recieve the best rewards. This is standard in any game.

[dasva]

Well if they were to continue with VW system (maybe up the drop rate) everyone gets their own rewards, so there is 0 competition. I just don't see this problem in any other MMO where people hate doing things with established linkshells (guilds). How can every other MMO have fights that require a large amount of people (while always giving lesser options, but nobody ever settles for that because they need everything in FFXI) w/o problems. If recruiting shout people in your runs is such a horrible thing, then (which goes back to what the other guy is saying) recruit intelligent players into an LS. Why do people have a problem doing new content that requires a decent sized group if there is 0 competition when plenty of other games do it?

That's a mighty big if.

Also this isn't those other games. I've seen people play those games and those big fights and it's just throw more bodies and it helps. Our fights having more bodies can actually hinder your chances at sucess significantly to the point people will refuse help mid fight.

Also the drop system on those games are often significantly better. Yeah VW introduced individual pools. Except it kept the droprate crap and often just means that one time you get lucky you get the thing you didn't use.

Other MMOs don't let you change jobs at the blink of an eye and basically force you to make alts and lvl new jobs for different things. Maybe ffxi should do that. Other MMOs are basically button mashing click fests maybe ffxi should do that. Or maybe ffxi should be ffxi

[Draylo]

FFXI is a MMO and should be about playing with other players, there are single player games if you dislike playing with other people.

[Yugl]

What number would suffice then? 3 people who two box being able to block everyone out and act like a single player game and get all the best items? Linkshells should be the standard for tackling hard content and there should always be optional content that people who prefer low man, can do, but not recieve the best rewards. This is standard in any game.

The idea of a "should" is an artificial construct and false sense of justice. All notions of "should" in the political context (Rather than predictive context) are dependent on the premises the come prior. Consequently, most notions of "should" are preferences. It's not the case that the game "should" use Linkhell numbers as the requirement (Which is well over 18). It's your preference that they use that number. Contrastingly, I prefer a six minimum for higher end players without an upper limit on the number of participants so that lesser end players can accomplish the same task with more.