Poll- Heavy Metal

[Kalasin]

FFXI is a MMO and should be about playing with other players, there are single player games if you dislike playing with other people.

I'm still not sure how you are assuming that I have a LS with very few people and mules when I say I refuse to have a 18 people LS, or how we hate others on ffxi cause we aren't shouting to fill the 6 last spots in the ally. Cause yes, this is what you are and have been saying.

[dasva]

FFXI is a MMO and should be about playing with other players, there are single player games if you dislike playing with other people.

Stop trying to prove your argument with things no one said. It has 0 to do with soloing and no playing with anyone or disliking playing with anyone. It's the amount of people being forced to play with.

[Draylo]

The idea of a "should" is an artificial construct and false sense of justice. All notions of "should" in the political context (Rather than predictive context) are dependent on the premises the come prior. Consequently, most notions of "should" are preferences. It's not the case that the game "should" use Linkhell numbers as the requirement (Which is well over 18). It's your preference that they use that number. Contrastingly, I prefer a six minimum for higher end players without an upper limit on the number of participants so that lesser end players can accomplish the same task with more.

Damn you are so pompous I swear. It's called a fucking opinion lol. I'm not a developer for FFXI and neither are you, thought it would go w/o saying that we are all stating opinions.

Stop trying to prove your argument with things no one said. It has 0 to do with soloing and no playing with anyone or disliking playing with anyone. It's the amount of people being forced to play with.

What is so bad about the amount of people? If drops follow voidwatch and there is 0 competition what is the big deal? Not all fights are a clusterfuck if you can communicate effectively before and after the fight.

I'm still not sure how you are assuming that I have a LS with very few people and mules when I say I refuse to have a 18 people LS, or how we hate others on ffxi cause we aren't shouting to fill the 6 last spots in the ally. Cause yes, this is what you are and have been saying.

Then what is your ideal LS number? How is it such a hardship to have 18 people in a LS lol, the whole discussion is over future content requiring more people. It's not really that much different from Voidwatch requiring a decent amount of people.

[dasva]

What is so bad about the amount of people? If drops follow voidwatch and there is 0 competition what is the big deal? Not all fights are a clusterfuck if you can communicate effectively before and after the fight.
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Because people don't want to or can't do it. What is so bad with having the option to do with less people?

[Draylo]

Absolutely nothing! You shouldn't reap the best rewards though. In your post two pages ago you said it should scale, sure I can see that, but there is no incentive for scaling it to a bigger group if the rewards are the same as the low man group.

[Yugl]

Damn you are so pompous I swear. It's called a fucking opinion lol. I'm not a developer for FFXI and neither are you, thought it would go w/o saying that we are all stating opinions.

It's pompous when you construct your opinion as if it is a fact. Thus, the term is most applicable to your posts.

[Kalasin]

Then what is your ideal LS number? How is it such a hardship to have 18 people in a LS lol, the whole discussion is over future content requiring more people. It's not really that much different from Voidwatch requiring a decent amount of people.

The decent amount of people Voidwatch "requires" is 10 people at most, this includes both capping lights and killing the mob. My "ideal" LS is what we have right now, a LS containing of 11~12 people who know how their fucking job works without being told how to play before every fight. I'm sorry for you if you have to shout for more before every event, doesn't mean everyone has to though.

Blahblah future content; I never talked about future content when you quoted me, so you must have been on the wrong page. Get the fuck out.

[dasva]

Absolutely nothing! You shouldn't reap the best rewards though. In your post two pages ago you said it should scale, sure I can see that, but there is no incentive for scaling it to a bigger group if the rewards are the same as the low man group.

Why not? They played with as much or greater skill. Why should a few skilled players who try hard with the limited number of people and time they have not reap as good of rewards as a cluster fuck of n00bs who just go in and bash shit because they could afford to shout and wait for people for a couple of hours?

The thing about scaling is even as you make the fight harder and harder it generally still gets easier with more people just do to the ability to bring more specialized jobs or allow the jobs to play in a more specialized manner. Of course this assumes you take full advantage of the increased numbers and the players have some knowledge, ability and can work together.

Also if you could do interesting things with the treasure pool. Like have a combine one but make it so each extra person is another chance for something to drop. Or allow people to donate individual pools to the main one etc. While the amount of drops per person stays the same as if done with a smaller group you lower the chances of rots thereby increasing the quantity of drops useful to the people in the group.

Plus like you said some people just like getting together in a group

[Kalasin]

Just look at the new Walk of Echoes confluxes. If you go with only a few people you know, it's actually a challenge, and you can still win(should there be any time nobody enters randomly with you). Now, look at when they were first unlocked: 36 people, most without knowing each other, hell without even being in party to coordinate things, just hitting mobs long enough till they die.
More rewards? Yes. More skill? No. More fun? I highly doubt it, except maybe for those who couldn't play in smaller groups anyway.

In the case of your idea of Voidwatch, the random people who have no idea are the shout members of your alliance. Because be honest, most of the time it's total trash who will just stand around anyway until someone tells them to do something. I don't see how this benfits anyone.

[Draylo]

The decent amount of people Voidwatch "requires" is 10 people at most, this includes both capping lights and killing the mob. My "ideal" LS is what we have right now, a LS containing of 11~12 people who know how their fucking job works without being told how to play before every fight. I'm sorry for you if you have to shout for more before every event, doesn't mean everyone has to though.

Blahblah future content; I never talked about future content when you quoted me, so you must have been on the wrong page. Get the fuck out.

10 is still a decent amount of people, stop trying to look cool nobody cares. You can get out yourself as the phrase is getting old lol. You were talking about future content because the person who suggested getting 18 people in a LS was talking about future content, maybe you should read better then.

Why not? They played with as much or greater skill. Why should a few skilled players who try hard with the limited number of people and time they have not reap as good of rewards as a cluster fuck of n00bs who just go in and bash shit?

The thing about scaling is even as you make the fight harder and harder it generally still gets easier with more people just do to the ability to bring more specialized jobs or allow the jobs to play in a more specialized manner. Of course this assumes you take full advantage of the increased numbers and the players have some knowledge, ability and can work together.

Also if you could do interesting things with the treasure pool. Like have a combine one but make it so each extra person is another chance for something to drop. Or allow people to donate individual pools to the main one etc. While the amount of drops per person stays the same as if done with a smaller group you lower the chances of rots thereby increasing the quantity of drops useful to the people in the group.

Plus like you said some people just like getting together in a group

It should require a variety of jobs working together to beat the NM. 6 people only, heavily restricts the variety of jobs you would bring because you're restricted into the most optimal which might not be a job you enjoy. At least the way VW works now you can incorporate other jobs and have them be useful. While using 6 or less people to kill a high end NM can be challenging, I can't see it being that tough compared to something that would require more people to kill due to kill speed/special mechanics.

[dasva]

It should require a variety of jobs working together to beat the NM. 6 people only, heavily restricts the variety of jobs you would bring because you're restricted into the most optimal which might not be a job you enjoy. At least the way VW works now you can incorporate other jobs and have them be useful. While using 6 or less people to kill a high end NM can be challenging, I can't see it being that tough compared to something that would require more people to kill due to kill speed/special mechanics.

That's your opinion. Not everyone wants or can bring all those people so why not allow both? And the way VW works now isn't to allow you to incorporate other jobs so much as require them.

Again opinion. I don't consider having a whole bunch of people standing around waiting to waiting to do some janky mechanic or only coming in to suicide on the mob so that the only way to do it is to have those extra mechanics or bodies to do dmg more challenging then people going out and constantly doing whatever it takes to win. I can't think of any event where I had more than more than 6 people where I did as much as did with less. In fact almost always with more people I find what I do matters less and less and requires less skill. And that is what I define as difficult. How hard is it for the individual person to do what it takes to accomplish a win. I mean in the end if you always take a full allaince to kirin it is way easier than you soloing the individual gods even though they are much easier NMs. This becomes even more apparent with the whole scherzo + earthern armor. Big group can just sit there and take remembering to occasionally put buffs back up against whatever crazy thing comes their way as long as they can afford to have a brd + smn in tank pt at least. Smaller groups actually have to avoid those nasty moves. Actually heal significant amounts from them. And if the tank goes down that might just be game over

[Draylo]

That's your opinion. Not everyone wants or can bring all those people so why not allow both? And the way VW works now isn't to allow you to incorporate other jobs so much as require them.

Again opinion. I don't consider having a whole bunch of people standing around waiting to waiting to do some janky mechanic or only coming in to suicide on the mob so that the only way to do it is to have those extra mechanics or bodies to do dmg more challenging then people going out and constantly doing whatever it takes to win. I can't think of any event where I had more than more than 6 people where I did as much as did with less. In fact almost always with more people I find what I do matters less and less and requires less skill. And that is what I define as difficult. How hard is it for the individual person to do what it takes to accomplish a win. I mean in the end if you always take a full allaince to kirin it is way easier than you soloing the individual gods even though they are much easier NMs. This becomes even more apparent with the whole scherzo + earthern armor. Big group can just sit there and take remembering to occasionally put buffs back up against whatever crazy thing comes their way as long as they can afford to have a brd + smn in tank pt at least. Smaller groups actually have to avoid those nasty moves. Actually heal significant amounts from them. And if the tank goes down that might just be game over

Everything you just said is done in low man groups too lol.

That's your opinion too, oh and what I just said is an opinion. Let's all end our posts with "this is my opinion" so we don't have to keep accusing people of saying facts.

[Kalasin]

What is exactly is done in low man groups too? Run in to suicide just to proc something? No. Have a BRD+SMN in tank party? No. Feeling useless cause you have so many people? A sure no for that. The last two sentences he posted? Yes, cause that was referring to and only to low man groups, not to full alliances.

And if you think that saying doing a mob with 6 doesn't require more skill than doing the same mob with 18 is an opinion, then you are wrong.

And why would we stop here? Cause you feel like you lost and got everything wrong from the start of your posts in here? Ok, got it.

[dasva]

Exactly mine is opinion too. So why not have events that allow low mans but also allow large groups. Make it so they both can get the same stuff but not make it too much easier/faster for one then the other keeping everyone except the elitest happy?

[Churchill]

Why would you do it in a big group if you could to it easier/faster in a small group?

(You wouldn't)

[Draylo]

What is exactly is done in low man groups too? Run in to suicide just to proc something? No. Have a BRD+SMN in tank party? No. Feeling useless cause you have so many people? A sure no for that. The last two sentences he posted? Yes, cause that was referring to and only to low man groups, not to full alliances.

And if you think that saying doing a mob with 6 doesn't require more skill than doing the same mob with 18 is an opinion, then you are wrong.

And why would we stop here? Cause you feel like you lost and got everything wrong from the start of your posts in here? Ok, got it.

You really don't read do you? You should stop while you're ahead, I said a fight that requires more people (AV and PW pre lvl increase) is going to be harder than a fight that only requires 6 or less, that much should be obvious but maybe you're too stupid to realize. 10 people isn't exactly low manning, you should stop trying to look cool. The discussion was about future content and not now, you clearly stated in your previous post you weren't discussing that so you should just stop posting now.

[Kalasin]

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Not worth posting what I was going to, just amazing how you can't admit you were wrong quoting me with saying I was wrong, when I was talking about a different topic(which you just admitted yourself).

Also, your "you should stop posting" phrase is getting old too, so I don't seem to be alone with that, eh?

[Draylo]

Exactly mine is opinion too. So why not have events that allow low mans but also allow large groups. Make it so they both can get the same stuff but not make it too much easier/faster for one then the other keeping everyone except the elitest happy?

Exactly, its all opinions, so need to be a dick and try to devalue mine by simply saying "DATS UR OPINION". I could see if it was like I tried to make it seem like a necessity for the game but my posts weren't like that. You are missing the point entirely though, my opinion is based around the fact they will add mobs that will require more than a low man group to kill. This can be done through special mechanics or something else that is actually challenging. Why can't a large group face a challenging encounter the same way a small group can? Not everyone sits there and does nothing, each can have a role to fulfill. Voidwatch was and is at a decently difficulty, of course you have scrubs like Kalasian coming in saying how it was super duper easy with their 10+ people but the difficulty is still there where you actually need to pay attention unlike Abyssea (for most part). I would like that but on a level that incorporates multiple jobs to take down.

[Draylo]

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Not worth posting what I was going to, just amazing how you can't admit you were wrong quoting me with saying I was wrong, when I was talking about a different topic(which you just admitted yourself).

Also, your "you should stop posting" phrase is getting old too, so I don't seem to be alone with that, eh?

You were quoting someone saying just get a 18 man LS, in response to someone saying they don't want a future NM to require 18 people to take down since they dont have the numbers... You're just wrong bro.

[Kalasin]

I'm a scrub for needing 12 people, but you are the pro for having to shout for people to do it? Please elaborate.