Poll- Heavy Metal

[Kuishen]

The people wanting to lowman are just greedy and selfish. Quit making excuses. You want to do stuff with as few as possible to up the chance of you getting loot, while having to help as few other's get theirs as you possibly can. You want the best loot, yet you want to be able to get it with 6 people. There's plenty of stuff designed for lowmanning and 6 players, like bcnms and abyssea.

I feel VW was designed to require 18 people, that's why all the random triggers. A system where you bring more you have the chance to get more, due to more people looting, and higher trigger chances, and faster kill speed.

Yes. So SE makes the game lowman friendly for, well years now, and suddenly expects us to have a full alliance for their newest form of asshattery? That's retarded.

EDIT: Also fucking LOL at you calling lowman being greedy and selfish. Yes if wanting to be efficient and make the best use of EVERYBODY'S time is being greedy and selfish. Then I am probably the greediest and most selfish bastard on the planet.

[Alvein]

The people wanting to lowman are just greedy and selfish. Quit making excuses. You want to do stuff with as few as possible to up the chance of you getting loot, while having to help as few other's get theirs as you possibly can. You want the best loot, yet you want to be able to get it with 6 people. There's plenty of stuff designed for lowmanning and 6 players, like bcnms and abyssea.

I feel VW was designed to require 18 people, that's why all the random triggers. A system where you bring more you have the chance to get more, due to more people looting, and higher trigger chances, and faster kill speed.

I don't see what's wrong with wanting to do things with less people, it just means there are less ways for things to go wrong. More people usually means more potential for problems, be it loot or otherwise.

[Machazareel]

The people wanting to lowman are just greedy and selfish. Quit making excuses. You want to do stuff with as few as possible to up the chance of you getting loot, while having to help as few other's get theirs as you possibly can. You want the best loot, yet you want to be able to get it with 6 people. There's plenty of stuff designed for lowmanning and 6 players, like bcnms and abyssea.

I feel VW was designed to require 18 people, that's why all the random triggers. A system where you bring more you have the chance to get more, due to more people looting, and higher trigger chances, and faster kill speed.

Yeah, dude. Wanting to do stuff with friends that we've known for possibly close to a decade and who we trust instead of dragging along some windowlickers who can't seem to read party chat at all when there's a name in red on the screen is greedy and selfish.
It would be like going out to a bar with some good friends and being asked to bring some random clinically retarded hobo along. Ruins the whole groove, man.

[Churchill]

I think saying "lowmanning" is selfish is a fair argument, though it should be qualified better.

Anyway, after continuing to think about it and while working on weapons that are easier to upgrade than Empyreans I think my biggest gripe comes down to the necessity of such weapons to even be successful. I mean, with the number of temp items available, a perfect setup, constant procs to replenish I can definitely see an alliance defeating a T3 mob without any Empyrean/Gimperian/Relic/Mythics. I also saw a video of SE defeating AV @75 by looking at the day and using random 2h abilities. The fact is that the only way you're really going to repeatedly farm these fights is with the firepower to do so comfortably once procs have been obtained. Sometimes you get proc after proc and the shit is staggered from 95-5%, but most times it's more of a pain and you're left with a certain amount of time before 50% to safely proc and under 50% to fix what hasn't been procd or zerg the shit out of it. In order to really do this, you're looking at needing specific things for PLDs and DDs and they aren't dropped from procing blue or spending gil on the AH.

This leaves a situation that I feel more or less requires that to play a certain job you have certain weapons or you don't play certain jobs. I know I'm not alone in this sentiment though I don't claim it to be gospel. I just don't feel any amount of Y/G/K (or any) spam makes up for what you can do with a real weapon. The only job that bypasses this is Warrior but when used comparatively RR vs Ukko's is pretty lol.

[Jem]

I prefer lowmanning stuff purely because it means you can go with competent people rather than tards. However, there has to be larger scale/harder events to appease everyone. You can't have everything lowman otherwise it's unfair on the people who do want larger challenging fights. And those fights have to have a worthwhile reward otherwise there's no point doing them.

[Kuishen]

I still fail to see how being the most efficient and getting everybody the most out of their time spent is being selfish. (aka lowmanning)

[Draylo]

I still fail to see how being the most efficient and getting everybody the most out of their time spent is being selfish. (aka lowmanning)

Except low manning doesn't apply to Voidwatch at all. In fact you are more efficient bringing more people than less.

[Kuishen]

Except low manning doesn't apply to Voidwatch at all. In fact you are more efficient bringing more people than less.

Yes I already stated that this logic did not apply to Voidwatch in my first post of this argument. And then somebody brought in the stupid with the comment about low manning being selfish.

[Kalasin]

Let's be fair, Draylo started by assuming our LSs had 3 people and 2boxed mules, then said he didn't know we had 9-12 people and he called that a "decent amount of people". I can see how low man(if low man is bringing 3-4 people and mules) in Voidwatch is less efficient than bringing those 9+. Personally, I wouldn't even bother if we had only 4 people on, simply cause you really can't cover enough procs that way.

Before we go on, maybe we should clarify what we call "lowman" and what we call "enough to be efficient" right now, so we don't start pointless arguements over that again.

[kittycatrag]

Do you want to farm 1500 plates for all 18 people? How long would that take?

I could shout for my 4500 plates, getting people who just want VW equipment and hand me their plates. That way they don't have to do tons of voidwatch for someone they don't like. It doesn't matter if randoms are retarded and wearing cruor armor, as long as the shouter can effectively assign menial tasks before people get bored and leave. I don't blame others for my poor leadership.

VW is still boring and sucks so I went to the roller derby and watched girls hit each other.

[NynJa]

my civil post, as approved by a mod:

You want to stick to your little niche crew for events, then do events that cater to your little niche crew. By gimmick or not, if you want success in VW, you need a large group of varied jobs. Dont like it? Go back to abyssea, or hey, heres an idea: you have a group of 4 friends, and you all 2box...find another group of 3-4 2boxers and team up, all of a sudden those 6-8 characters becomes 12-16 characters. Its not like there will be fights over drops since everyone has their own pool.

--not approved past this line--
If theres a problem with teaming up with other niche groups, then theres probably a reason for it, but its out of SE's responsibility (you've alienated yourselves, you play non-standard time and there are language barriers, other niche groups actually teamed up and are full, etc etc). SE made VW and event that requires multiple job distriution, even if its for stupid gimmicks like using Modus Veritas for a proc, but thats what people wanted: events that exceed past having the same 6 jobs over and over and over.

[Churchill]

At some level, regardless of efficiency or playing with competent friends, lowmanning things is largely influenced by the fact that you can get the shit that you personally want faster and have to help less people (equally) along the way.

You can be happy to help your friends, selfless in your efforts even, but at the end of the day if you had a 4 man static and 5 more great players with great attitudes showed up wanting to get in on your group 99% of groups would not take them. That's 5 more mouths to feed. It's not even something to get mad over, it's just plainly the truth.

[NynJa]

But, as was said over and over, this is a non-factor in VW since everyone has their own chest...believe me, I completely HATE the personal chest option, I think its complete garbage that someone can get 3 HQ bodies before the other potential 17 people even see one, and its kept me very very far away from VW because it seems anyone on my SEID has a hidden luck stat of -999, but the counter argument of "we dont want to have to farm for more people" is completely annuled when it comes to VW.

[Ocara]

Even if there are personal chests, you still end up having to do the fight X more times until everyone has their loot unless you get extremely lucky with drops.

[NynJa]

"got my shit kpeace"
might as well do it to others before they do it to you? lol

[NynJa]

why double post?

anyways...

[DNAval]

Yes. So SE makes the game lowman friendly for, well years now, and suddenly expects us to have a full alliance for their newest form of asshattery? That's retarded.

EDIT: Also fucking LOL at you calling lowman being greedy and selfish. Yes if wanting to be efficient and make the best use of EVERYBODY'S time is being greedy and selfish. Then I am probably the greediest and most selfish bastard on the planet.

I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree with this, specially the bolded part.

About the lowman being selfish I did HNM for 3 years, did Dynamis like a religion before the changes. Obviously all those event with large numbers of people, and got very few items out of that whole deal, SE's /random generator just wasn't on my side.... so I get 1 pair of Herald gaiters a Seveneyes, Red Mage af2 hat after all that time of "Cooperating with others" hmmmmmmmmm. Yeah..... the hell with large man groups. I rather uninstall FFXI than go back to that.

[Taint]

Voidwait
The number one reason to hate alliance events. No sky warp, muling gear, food, random AFK, WC, wife aggro, putting baby to bed, random D2s, etc etc etc.

The number two reason is pick up alliances. We waited 45min for this PLD to get to Qilin last night. (taking a bird to sky should have been the first sign) Said he was experienced with max temps items. Shows up in full AF3+0 rocking an organics. Its a /facepalm event unless you want to join a larger LS.

[Lyramion]

Voidwait
The number one reason to hate alliance events. No sky warp, muling gear, food, random AFK, WC, wife aggro, putting baby to bed, random D2s, etc etc etc.

The number two reason is pick up alliances. We waited 45min for this PLD to get to Qilin last night. (taking a bird to sky should have been the first sign) Said he was experienced with max temps items. Shows up in full AF3+0 rocking an organics. Its a /facepalm event unless you want to join a larger LS.

VW heavily caters to the JP /shout culture. Most of them would be ashamed down to their bones for delaying a run for more time than needed. The shouters also often set up Battlefield /seacoms with times for runs later/tomorrow and people actually read them. Things come together pretty naturally for Voidwatch on their part.

The few NA runs I´ve been to have been exactly what you described. For example had a simple shout to clear Windy Step 3 and 4. it looked like getting to Meriphaut [S] was rocket science to most. Then when things got started of course death all over, because feeding the mob TP and standing in AoE range is awesome. After a while it became pretty clear that the SMNs were the only things to actually clear this but people got angry at "pets giving too much TP". Of course after clearing step 3 50% of the ally really had to go. Oh the joy of shouts.


Anyone on Bahamut wants to adopt a tiny Taru Voidwatch Slave? <.<

[Gustave]

It comes down to personal preference. I enjoy larger alliance fights enough that the extra time waiting for gather does not bother me. The only problem I have is most of these fights become boring after a few kills since they go from difficult to incredibly easy after a couple fights.

I would like to see more difficult fights with a higher drop rate. I was expecting a higher level of difficulty coming from these events. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for another AV but being successful on your first or second attempt with less than an alliance was a bit disappointing.

Maybe even something like increased difficulty and drop rate with each successful kill.