Poll- Heavy Metal

[Arthars]

tbh idc how many they need. Empyrean is sub par outside anyway if you have a 95 relic.... unless ur playing with jobs that u dont have a relic but have an emp....

however 1500 is steep, but u guys shouldnt be worried anyway. Just collect as many as you can, dont turn them in because im sure everyone knows 1500 is unrealistic at this point and it will eventually reduce....

already many noobs on official forum QQed and im sure SE will do what they did to mythic.........

just chill out with ur metals for now

as for relic being easier, yes sure it is, but still it will take maybe 1 month fastest for 1 relic...... maybe slightly faster with white proc now.....but lets keep it 1 month average and its still 8 times slower than an empyrean which takes only 3-4 days

poor mythic tho

[Mairja]

Empyrean is sub par outside anyway if you have a 95 relic....

Yeah Ukonvasara is certainly sub par outside abyssea...


Anyway, I voted for 150. 75 -> 150 makes sense. And with the drop rate as it is, 150 plates is more than enough. Personally I have done 13 T3 zilart/jeuno VWNM fights (quite a few ls members needed different paths wins and we've been working on that too) and gotten one single plate so far. One. Single. Plate. -.- Not very encouraging at all.

Plates are selling for 250-400k on Asura. The majority of my ls members are selling theirs, despite having one or more empyrean weapons, but screw buying any for that price. As for people giving away their plates to one ls member to help upgrade one empyrean weapon to 95 at a time - with the current prices here that's like giving away a shitton of gil. So I can't say I blame my ls members for selling instead.

And on top of that, there's the voidstone problem. The way we have been spamming VWNM lately, my voidstone stock has dwindled away quite rapidly. And this might end up being a limiting factor to how much people can spam T3 jeuno/zilart aswell.

All in all, as thing are currently, with the drop rates and everything, 1500 plates to upgrade to 95 is utterly ridiculous.

[Darkmagi]

Plates are 100-200k on phoenix, and dropping daily. I agree on a 150 trial though.

[Arthars]

Yeah Ukonvasara is certainly sub par outside abyssea...

u tried 95 bravura outside abyssea?

[Darkmagi]

Bravura is fine as a defensive weapon, ukon destroys it as far as damage goes.

[Arthars]

yup good for VW too since war need any form of defence boost as a suicide job

[dasva]

Conqueror is pretty pimping too now

[Darkmagi]

Conqueror is probably the best assuming you can fulltime lvl3 aftermath. Bravura does seem like a good VW weapon though, since all wars seem to do is die without fanatics on.

[Slycer]

And on top of that, there's the voidstone problem. The way we have been spamming VWNM lately, my voidstone stock has dwindled away quite rapidly. And this might end up being a limiting factor to how much people can spam T3 jeuno/zilart aswell.

It's been pointed out elsewhere, but you can get enough AN for 3-4 Voiddust from a ~20 minute campaign battle (if it goes much longer than that you should stop to get evaluated and start again since the exp/AN rate is much higher and you cap much faster now). If you go do campaign for an afternoon or whatever you can set yourself up with enough AN for a while.

[Sho]

I said keep it the same. It's pretty obvious they want to make Emps the best weapon overall by 99, but a bitch to complete. I bet there's some hidden stats on those weapons. Of course with the next VWNM expansion there will be more and possibly better sources for metal and mirrors anyways.

[Mairja]

It's been pointed out elsewhere, but you can get enough AN for 3-4 Voiddust from a ~20 minute campaign battle (if it goes much longer than that you should stop to get evaluated and start again since the exp/AN rate is much higher and you cap much faster now). If you go do campaign for an afternoon or whatever you can set yourself up with enough AN for a while.

I agree this isn't a bad way to get more voidstones, just keep fingers crossed that everyone else in the ls that are low on stones will take the time to do this too.

I guess I should be grateful that you can get voidstones for voiddust. :/

[Mahoro]

Count me in as one of those who thinks someone at SE added a 0 and they really meant 150. 150 for that kind of incremental damage increase (barring hidden effects discovered) is eminently sensible. If the Level 99 weapons end up being fantastic, I would think 300 Plates for those would make sense given the progression we've had (50, 50, 75, etc).

[Slycer]

I think something higher than 150 is reasonable. You get maybe 1.6 average drops off a NM for Abyssea stages. Pain in the ass to get pop items for some of these, which is a non-issue in Voidwatch. Average drop per NM is something like 6-10 depending on whether you're doing Zilart or Jeuno, and that doesn't factor the reduced time for each pop since collecting pop items isn't an issue. Say the drop rate is like 5x higher overall, so something on the order of 300-500 wouldn't be totally unreasonable. 1500 is definitely out of whack with the previous trials, though, even if you don't consider the relatively meager stat upgrade, assuming there's nothing hidden. Don't forget that even if nothing is added that drops heavy metal plates, these fights will get easier in the future due to likely being able to equip 3 atmacites, further upgrading of atmacites to level 15, more temporary items available, and level 99 cap increase.

[Byrthnoth]

Well, that's true until you consider how many people it takes to complete each stage.

30~50 kills for the last two stages . . . with 2-3 characters and 1~2 people.
30~80 kills is what you're proposing for the last stage . . . with 18 characters and ~12 people.

The number of man hours required has increased dramatically.

[Slycer]

I don't think it's a completely fair comparison. Visions NMs were not possible at level 80 with 1-2 people, I'd liken it to that. At level 99 with more, higher tier atmacites, and potentially more temporary items, you should be able to safely drop 18 to 9. When you factor in 10-15 minutes per kill in Voidwatch and closer to 20-30 minutes per kill in Abyssea with a few exceptions like Isgebind (including the time to collect key items and the time to kill), it's not incredibly far off.

Again, I'm certainly not defending 1500 but I think 150 would be too low with the longer term in mind.

[Byrthnoth]

9 with capped lights? 10~15 minutes including travel time, max of 4 stones, etc? The extreme difficulty disparity between the fights?

On a side note, all of the trials requesting Heavy Metal actually reference the same dialogue line. Making one spelling error (1500 instead of 150) would have thrown all the trials off. That said, they've had two weeks and one update to change it or tells us it was a mistake and they haven't. Thus, it probably wasn't a mistake. I'll find out in a week or two, lol.

[Avarice]

150-300 seems reasonable given the drop rate.

[Slycer]

One well-timed high stagger (or four well-timed low staggers) takes you to capped lights if you have TH. I think you'd be able to cap lights more often than not with the right set of 9-10 people. Travel time is non-issue if people are smart about home points and have leveled abyssites, longest run you'd have would be maybe 7-8 minutes to Uptala. An hour for four Uptalas including travel time isn't that unreasonable (even if people don't have leveled abyssites, sky warp is actually even better).

I don't think 1500 was unintended and I'm sure they have some kind of justification for it, but it would be nice if they would communicate that to us, because it just doesn't seem right for just DMG boosts unless there are some incredible hidden effects on the upgrades or something incredible is coming at 99.

[Kalasin]

I said keep it the same. It's pretty obvious they want to make Emps the best weapon overall by 99, but a bitch to complete. I bet there's some hidden stats on those weapons. Of course with the next VWNM expansion there will be more and possibly better sources for metal and mirrors anyways.

Oh really? The way I've seen the past relic upgrades is that all of those were prep. upgrades, and that the main one is coming still. We got more damage along with more accuracy/attack, a WS boost, and a hidden damage proc boost. What exactly is left now to upgrade that makes the old relics unique? Nothing. They didn't upgrade everything a little each upgrade either, but every upgrade only one single thing. Makes one think that something new is coming at 99.

Doesn't seem so obvious to me.

[Darkmagi]

Wasn't there something said about relics getting a revamp, but it would take them until 99 to implement it?