Ifrit Battle

**tachikoma** · 2011-11-15 10:54

I think the numbers are:

(ifrit > 20%) + > 2,500tp = DS2
(ifrit > 20%) + < 2,500tp = chaosthrust
(ifrit < 20%) = chaosthrust

and buffs should be prioritized for DS2 pre <20%

consistently our best DPS'ers are the ones who use chaosthrust more then the others, usually I say our good DPS'ers do 25-30 with harpoon and 22+ w/o harpoon.

**Sutien** · 2011-11-15 13:18

Originally Posted by oldoldman

I don;t get why though, Doomspike just seems to do more damage.

Big number syndrome.

I parsed myself spamming doomspike and then again spamming chaos thrust. I did better with chaos thrust in both total damage and DPS. I now spam chaos thrust. Could I do more testing? Sure. Do I care to? No.

**Carraway** · 2011-11-15 13:42

Chaos Thrust is more dmg/TP at 2000 TP, but there are some occasions in which dmg/TP efficiency doesn't matter.

**Liminality** · 2011-11-15 16:35

Chaos Thrust is purtty flowers! Just waiting on WS with little Wyvern coming down during WS to replace >:D

**Celeras** · 2011-11-17 04:58

Originally Posted by Sutien

Big number syndrome.

I parsed myself spamming doomspike and then again spamming chaos thrust. I did better with chaos thrust in both total damage and DPS. I now spam chaos thrust. Could I do more testing? Sure. Do I care to? No.

Bad player syndrome.

**Niiro** · 2011-11-17 19:51

Speaking as someone who's LNC isn't even 50 yet: if DMG/TP was the deciding factor wouldn't you just be spamming Moonrise? (outside of buffs)

I'm gonna assume it's all a bit more in depth.

Almost like.....idk....crazy idea here, but maybe certain things should be used in certain situations.

**Hiroishime** · 2011-11-17 20:14

i think DMG/TP is always deciding factor in a hard encounters because the longer the fight took, the faster mage's MP will be drained out.

**miokomioko** · 2011-11-17 22:47

Then there's also the factor of some weaponskills having longer recasts than others and Keen Flurry isn't quick enough to completely remove that. Doomspike II + Chaos Thrust.

**Carraway** · 2011-11-18 15:26

Ifrit is about doing the most damage in a fairly limited window of time, not necessarily long-term efficiency. Damage scaling against a boss target like Ifrit is such that you want the highest base damage possible that can then be modified by buffs and crits. Moonrise's base damage is too low against Ifrit, and I'm pretty sure that two Moonrises still doesn't match up to one Chaos Thrust. Even if it were close, forcing yourself into two animation locks instead of one, taking 4 seconds to do 400 damage instead of 2 seconds, etc., are all terrible ideas. More often than not, any fight with movement will force you into situations where you have a surfeit of TP, not a drought.

It's less about dmg/TP than it is about dmg/TP/seconds.

**Niiro** · 2011-11-18 16:46

If it wasn't clear, I was not-so-subtly trying to make a "shit is situational: XIV version" joke in my previous post.

Some WSs may not be worth using in a lot of situations or for purposes of pure damage at all.

Even if Moonrise is the best DMG/TP (on regular leve-level mobs it certainly is more efficient than Doom) you actually need to consider the slowdown in AA. Compared to XI; we WS much, much more often and the animation delays from WSing are a factor worth consideration. WSs themselves are much weaker in general (stuff like Phalanx and Fracture are barely worth using at all for purposes of damage).

ex. Using Moonrise every time it's up may be more efficient in terms of DMG/TP but using a cheaper, weaker WS more often (compared to Doom, about twice as often) means you're losing twice as much TP and melee damage to animation delays compared to using a WS that costs twice the TP (or more). The distinction between DMG/TP and effective DPS requires more consideration.

**miokomioko** · 2011-11-26 19:30

What are you tanks doing to bring Ifrit back into position after Hellfire? I have never tanked him but I have a general idea of how it works for most of the fight, except the last handful of runs our (random) tanks have had some issues with positioning after he comes down from Hellfire. If he jumps, we're good, but if he refuses to jump, we end up with some really shitty plume patterns.

Staying in the normal spot seems to bring him sideways with his ass towards the right mage (assuming 2 mages).
Running out to meet him in the middle seems to make him use a TP move sooner and in the middle of the arena.

Do you go like halfway out and guide him back in?

**Elcura** · 2011-11-26 19:41

I dunno what spot you use, but after Hellfire I run towards the middle where Ifrit's charges usually hit (keeping my back against wall at all times). When Ifrit runs back, you usually get him in a decent spot by the time he hits you. If you run back a little before he reaches most of the time he'll be in a good position (only repositioning for the tank is Vulcan Blast). Sometimes the first plume will be rough or weird (even for the tank), but after that it's usually stable.

Most of the time there's nothing you can do about it though, I haven't really perfected how to get Ifrit in the best position because sometimes he does really random things.

**Karinastar** · 2011-11-26 20:25

When I tank, after Hellfire I run out, meet him halfway then run straight back. Usually it works okay, but sometimes he moves in a wonky way and messes up the positioning. I'm not usually the tank so I'm sure I could be doing it better. For a while one of our tanks would run out then kind of cut right before running him back. This seemed to work to get him in a good position, but the downside was that he'd be out in the middle longer and if he did a plume it would be all messed up and sometimes cause issues.

**Waraji** · 2011-11-27 02:13

I do a > shape move from the center to the tanking position. Usually puts em exactly where I need him to. Unless I'm late to execute, although in my defense I don't tank this guy very often.

**miokomioko** · 2011-11-27 03:20

Thanks for the input, I think our tank has figured out a sweet spot of sorts. It seems he goes about 1/3 of the way to the middle, and then a < shape back to make doubly sure his ass isn't facing to the melee's right. (this from a melee point of view, as we tank him where he spawns).

Also, I'm going to be one of those 0/60+ people that you hear about killing themselves over a video game. This is beyond retarded. I just had someone get 4 drops, 2 of them completed his set of 7... seen about 20+ drops total today (none to me)... gone through over a stack of Tapers... Exp'd through like 3 levels of WVR/ALC from rewards... Mind-blowingly terrible loot situation.

**CrstyCptSteveWitherspoon** · 2011-11-27 18:26

I haven't tried him yet but the loot situation makes me not even want to. Sounds like warhammer all over again with gear dropping for classes that aren't even there. At least there's no three day lockout timer for ifrit. The only worse thing is the possibility of ifrit being broken after 1.20 and not even having a chance at all for gear.

**euph** · 2011-11-28 04:13

the fight is fun and challenging (albeit at first), you should definitely at least try it.

**miokomioko** · 2011-11-28 04:30

It definitely feels like an accomplishment the first couple times you beat it, and it's definitely a blast when you barely win.

...But when you get 66 wins under your belt and have watched everyone around you besides yourself getting multiple drops... it gets extremey disheartening.

**Fievel** · 2011-11-28 04:41

Originally Posted by miokomioko

It definitely feels like an accomplishment the first couple times you beat it, and it's definitely a blast when you barely win.

I felt like a god when I finally got my first win, lol. Then we won once after that and the group disbanded. Lately it's just been more fail pick ups

**miokomioko** · 2011-11-28 04:56

Oh god, the fail pickups become so much worse once you've "clicked" with the fight and know what you're doing.

Thread: Ifrit Battle

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