Ultra Street Fighter IV: AVOID PS4 RELEASE FOR NOW

[octopus]

I thought demon flip throw can hit crouchers too.

[Aurara]

No you're right. Ibuki has the best vortex in the game, her position depends on where you block. A majority of online players don't even know how to block Oni let alone Ibuki. I think Aurara is thinking Akuma's is better because he's a stronger character overall.

He's better because his alt costumes are cooler than Ibukis

[Chun Liroy]

Does Akuma wear a diaper in one of his alts?

PASS

[Weltall]

Akuma is stronger than Ibuki by a long shot.

Seth has the best vortex in the game, and it isn't close.

[Chun Liroy]

Akuma is stronger than Ibuki by a long shot.

Seth has the best vortex in the game, and it isn't close.

I disagree completely, for reasons I already said. Everything in his vortex game is unsafe unless you count corner toe taps > cross up mixup. Which as stated, only works in the corner. His setup/safejump off of HP DPx3 only works if you quick rise. His best setup is off SPD, which doesn't work as well when you're in the corner. Hell, I'm pretty sure vega could be both his DP and SPD and punish with KKK backflips, can't do that shit with anything else.

So why do you think his is the best?

[Deejay]

lol at saying anyone's vortex is better than akumas. seth is 1b if anything.

ibuki vortex was like abel's old vortex. it's almost completely momentum based

[Deejay]

Akuma has the threat of a throw, focus break, left/right, high/low, after every knock down. he can also punish back dash with almost every set up. ibuki has 1 fucking kunai which can be focused, and if she goes for a safe jump, it's completely obvious

Oh, and Akuma also has waaaaaay more unblockables.

All things considered, Cammy has arguably a better vortex game than Ibuki. You either know how to block kunai's or you don't. There really isn't much to it

[Don Katsu]

People chose to call Akuma's Okizeme a vortex instead which is kind of stupid because they are not the same thing. Okizeme means knocking down your opponent again when they are knocked down. Using the term vortex really should mean you're getting attacked on two sides which can both hit you but blocking on one will block the other. Also, once started the "cycle" or "vortex" can continue.

The thing that makes Ibuki the strongest at this is that her kunai cross ups are EXTREMELY ambiguous and it is much harder to determine where she is going to land and which way you should block. If she lands it once she can land it again. Cammy cannot attack on two sides and also her Oki ends with a techable knockdown which most players quick rise to for her to do it again, which is perfect timing for her? lol

Does Akuma/Cammy have better Okizeme? Yes

[Callisto]

Err idk if I'd call kunai focusable, yes you can absorb the projectile itself but you're going to get hit as soon as she lands regardless of what you do after. Kunai mixups are more ambiguous imo, but Cannon Spike and Akuma vortex are more solid sustainable pressure. You know Cammy won't cross you up as often, but you're also pretty much forced to sit and take the blockstring pressure.

Either way I think there's still a long way to go in terms if metagame developments, every character is going to end up with their own unblockable safe jump setups and that's probably going to be the endgame until SF5, even Dan has unblockables on the whole cast now. I don't mind since my character has great setups but I think things will get a little lame on the first knockdown wins thing.

[Callisto]

Cammy cannot attack on two sides and also her Oki ends with a techable knockdown which most players quick rise to for her to do it again, which is perfect timing for her?

Sak's the same way, late rise will fuck her momentum all to hell but most people tech out if habit.

[Chun Liroy]

Hi vega has no mixups. Literally none. That char will go straight to ass tier in ss vortex fighter 4. As will most charge chars.

[Don Katsu]

Sak's the same way, late rise will fuck her momentum all to hell but most people tech out if habit.

and this is why I change up my wake up time and why Ken doesn't have a combo into Untechable knockdown :\

[Weltall]

lol at saying anyone's vortex is better than akumas. seth is 1b if anything.

ibuki vortex was like abel's old vortex. it's almost completely momentum based

lol at saying Akuma's vortex is better than Seths. There is a nice long youtube video where JWong, James Chen, and that stream dude with the glasses from Norcal (forgot his name) explain why Seth's vortex is the best by a long shot. I'll take Jwong's knowledge and opinion over yours.

Edit: No I'm not looking for it. The description has nothing to do with Seth and its from a tournament, maybe EVO side stream.

I know where it started. Jwong was later asked at a salty suite about it and there is a long video on youtube or Richard's site, but too hard to look for. Watch 47:00 - 52:00 -



They basically say Seth's mixup/oki vortex is in a category of its own, "2x better than the next best" and later they asked the question in interviews to people in Champ's room.

[Don Katsu]

Sorry Welt the connection got progressively worse after the second set

Roomate started playing MMO :\

[Chun Liroy]

lol at saying Akuma's vortex is better than Seths. There is a nice long youtube video where JWong, James Chen, and that stream dude with the glasses from Norcal (forgot his name) explain why Seth's vortex is the best by a long shot. I'll take Jwong's knowledge and opinion over yours.

Edit: No I'm not looking for it. The description has nothing to do with Seth and its from a tournament, maybe EVO side stream.

I know where it started. Jwong was later asked at a salty suite about it and there is a long video on youtube or Richard's site, but too hard to look for. Watch 47:00 - 52:00 -



They basically say Seth's mixup/oki vortex is in a category of its own, "2x better than the next best" and later they asked the question in interviews to people in Champ's room.

Then can you explain why? I'm just not seeing it at all. you provided no argument besides "lol jwong said so, so it must be true." You haven't even said why he's said that. Deejay, why do you consider seths better than ibukis? I have no problem being wrong, but id like to be educated. ..

[Deejay]

lol at saying Akuma's vortex is better than Seths. There is a nice long youtube video where JWong, James Chen, and that stream dude with the glasses from Norcal (forgot his name) explain why Seth's vortex is the best by a long shot. I'll take Jwong's knowledge and opinion over yours.

You mean the guy who said Adon was low tier? Yeah, I'll take actual tournament results over Jwong's year old opinion.

I never even said Seth wasn't on the same level. I'm saying that Akuma just covers so god damn much, where Seth is just gamble city. Seth's vortex is basically high risk/reward based, while Akuma's is straight up smothering.

[Deejay]

Err idk if I'd call kunai focusable, yes you can absorb the projectile itself but you're going to get hit as soon as she lands regardless of what you do after. Kunai mixups are more ambiguous imo, but Cannon Spike and Akuma vortex are more solid sustainable pressure. You know Cammy won't cross you up as often, but you're also pretty much forced to sit and take the blockstring pressure.

Either way I think there's still a long way to go in terms if metagame developments, every character is going to end up with their own unblockable safe jump setups and that's probably going to be the endgame until SF5, even Dan has unblockables on the whole cast now. I don't mind since my character has great setups but I think things will get a little lame on the first knockdown wins thing.

The game doesn't actually have unblockables, so that can't happen. What unblockables truly are, are '1-frame blocks'. You can't hold left or right when you block them, but if you tap the opposite direction of where your opponent will land on the first frame that you get up, you'll block the attack.

Once people memorize unblockables, the people who get hit by them will just memorize how to block them, which will force you the attacker to switch it up, which means the metagame stays the same

proof:

[Deejay]

Then can you explain why? I'm just not seeing it at all. you provided no argument besides "lol jwong said so, so it must be true." You haven't even said why he's said that. Deejay, why do you consider seths better than ibukis? I have no problem being wrong, but id like to be educated. ..

Well there's many reason. Most of them begin with the fact that his attacks are always ambiguous, but even if you block the jump in, you're still at an extreme disadvantage. His biggest tool isn't his SPD, it's the fact that his DP covers so much ground. No one can backdash Seth's DP, so you can't do anything proactive (ie jump, backdash, tech, mash DP)when he has 2 bars, period. Now couple this with the fact that he has an SPD. The only way to get out of SPD setups is to back dash or jump or reversal DP, but if you do any of those while Seth DP's, you'll lose. This means that you're forced to block and predict when Seth will go for a DP or command grab. He's the only character in the game who can put the whole cast in legitimate 50/50 situations.

So even if you successfully guess the first 50/50 jump in, you literally have to guess again during his block string. He basically get's 2 mixups on every knockdown. The first comes when he jumps in, and the second comes when he starts his block string.

When Ibuki goes in with kunai, the only thing you're worrying about blocking is left/right, and if you block correctly, you guys are both neutral. This is why I don't think her vortex is on the same level as Akuma/Seth

[Weltall]

Then can you explain why? I'm just not seeing it at all. you provided no argument besides "lol jwong said so, so it must be true." You haven't even said why he's said that. Deejay, why do you consider seths better than ibukis? I have no problem being wrong, but id like to be educated. ..

You have obviously NEVER played a great Seth, and I am not talking about random 5k BP Seths you find on Xbox Live. Offline, Seth is even more ridiculously hard to beat if the player is strong. Basically, what DJ said about DP and SPD. If you don't win the first round, you aren't winning the match. His dive kick is retardedly good and hard to AA.

Mago has also said playing against Seth makes the game "fun" because its entirely different that playing vs. any other character. This is because his mixup game is the strongest.

[Chun Liroy]

Then can you explain why? I'm just not seeing it at all. you provided no argument besides "lol jwong said so, so it must be true." You haven't even said why he's said that. Deejay, why do you consider seths better than ibukis? I have no problem being wrong, but id like to be educated. ..

Sorry, I was on my phone so I didn't see the video was there. Still, I agree Seth has really good Oki, like viper, but not really as good of a vortex as Akuma/Ibuki.