Stats and how they work.

[Kaeko]

Stan if it's not too much trouble can you at least summarize what's being said in this one on distribution?
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=317397

Also a more random question to everyone... is it true Aegis Boon HP return is based on the block stat? I saw an interesting post other day where someone advocated Scutum for the higher block to get higher Aegis boon returns.

also how are they getting 320 seals ; ;

[Nariiko]

The double caravan post is really interesting. I personally have spammed caravan a good number of times myself. I've only received 300 (on the rank 45 caravan) once. So not sure how this player was able to get 320- I just google translated it so I can kinda get a jist but could be interpreting very wrong.

So far I've /personally/ obtained/seen.

110 seals (If a chocobo has lost a package you will receive this much)
150 seals (Usually received if mob pop is low or the 3 conditional solo spawn mobs are crab/raptor (Limsa's 3 are crab>>raptor>>Toad)
225 seals (Usually you need high mob pop + x2 Toads. But I've seen it occasionally obtained with high mob pop + x1 toad)
300 seals (I personally have only obtained this once. When I did we had x7THMs and the caravan never stopped moving till the end when we paused it shortly for job change. I know we had x2 toads- I'm sorry I don't know what the 3rd mob was)
_______________________________________________

After trying to read through the bits of google translation it seems the player was saying something about not stoping the caravan? So perhaps a sort of time factor involved on top of the random mobs. It would make sense since when I did receive the 300 we never had to stop it because we had so many binds / AoEs and many of the times I've done it receiving 150/225 it's been low maning it thus creating us to stop the caravan for MP recovery.

Something about 'military' status which I'm assuming is how more mobs pop on occasion than others. Also I see Tranquil mentioned multiple times but I am unable to understand if it means military status is linked to the completion of the lower level caravan OR they are receiving 320 seals from the rank 30 caravan.

The user also talks about making a map pop location for /something/ which I'm assuming their referencing the 3 solo mobs that will pop (similar how in Darkhold in Chocobo room the fish you must kill for chest unlock is solo. I know Limsa's has this in the rank 45 I just assumed Ul'dah/Gridania had a similar set up with different mobs)

Either way~ I'd be quite interested to see a more viable translation if anyone is kind enough to do so.

[Stanislaw]

Stan if it's not too much trouble can you at least summarize what's being said in this one on distribution?
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=317397

Basically she comes to the conclusion that because damage variations are spread out equally throughout the board (if you hit the mob enough times, you almost get the same amounts of mins, averages and max hits), if you can figure out the min/max of damages you can easily figure out what your average damage is. At least when it comes to Auto-Attack anyway.

Then she goes on creating a formula of finding out just exactly how many times you have to hit the mob to figure out what the min/max value is with 99.9% certainty. If I'm reading it correctly (I'm only quickly skimming through it so forgive me if I'm wrong), you'll need to do so about 200 times.

Also a more random question to everyone... is it true Aegis Boon HP return is based on the block stat? I saw an interesting post other day where someone advocated Scutum for the higher block to get higher Aegis boon returns.

No idea. The only thing I do know is that the HP you heal from Aegis Boon doesn't generate any additional enmity much like Necrogenesis.

also how are they getting 320 seals ; ;

The lv45 Gridania Caravan Escorts are a little special in the fact that their normal rewards are 160. There was a Japanese Dev response to this a little while ago when it explained that the Gridania Caravan was harder and longer compared to the other two, and hence the slightly increased reward. Thus, they're getting 320 seals from double rewards.

After trying to read through the bits of google translation it seems the player was saying something about not stoping the caravan? So perhaps a sort of time factor involved on top of the random mobs. It would make sense since when I did receive the 300 we never had to stop it because we had so many binds / AoEs and many of the times I've done it receiving 150/225 it's been low maning it thus creating us to stop the caravan for MP recovery.

It's actually the other way around. The original poster mentions stopping the Caravan at three specific points, and when he does and waits for a moment a few extra mobs pop. Using this method, he was able to get the x1.5 rewards 100% of the time and the x2.0 rewards twice in the time he tested his theory out.

He also mentions the rewards are dependent on how many mobs you kill, not the time it takes the caravan to reach the end. Do note that he simply doesn't mention the time, so it doesn't necessarily mean that time is not in the factor.

[Buttons]

My LS usually does the Gridanian Choco Caravan with 3-5 THM and we consistently get 240 seals. We've mostly figured out where to wait for the extra mobs to spawn.

Every now and then we get 320 seals, but I still have not figured out how to consistently trigger it. Getting 240 seals is easy, but we only get 320 every few runs.

Each time we did get 320 seals though we did everything as we usually do, stop at our usual places long enough for the monsters to spawn (or two/three waves in some spots). 320 seals usually was the reward when we got those gigantic boar spawns at the end.

[GavinBandura]

Never done this before, is it decent seals/hour?

[Raldo]

Caravans run every 15 minutes. Ignoring Gridania's bonus seals, that just over 800 seals per hour if you don't lose any cargo. Bonus! Right before the run ends, you can switch to a DoH job and get crafting exp!

You'll need several people to get good seals though. Mages are better due to AOE spells.

[Kaeko]

Thanks for the overview on the distribution study. I was worried that their findings showed non-random distribution (would pretty much nix 90% of the testing I've been involved with).

[Almalexia]

Basically she comes to the conclusion that because damage variations are spread out equally throughout the board (if you hit the mob enough times, you almost get the same amounts of mins, averages and max hits), if you can figure out the min/max of damages you can easily figure out what your average damage is. At least when it comes to Auto-Attack anyway.

Then she goes on creating a formula of finding out just exactly how many times you have to hit the mob to figure out what the min/max value is with 99.9% certainty. If I'm reading it correctly (I'm only quickly skimming through it so forgive me if I'm wrong), you'll need to do so about 200 times.

That's a relief. I hope it stays that way after 1.21.

[Seravi Edalborez]

With Lominsan Lantern Shield I always get 703 (I think) back on Aegis, barring the Stoneskin bug messing it up. If there's other variables you need provided (max HP, etc) I can throw those out after testing a hit.

[Kaeko]

I think the latern has less block than vintage but they both give a 703 return on aegis? does this suggest that block and aegis HP return are unrelated? I only read some dude's post on it but never saw any verification that they were even related.

[Seravi Edalborez]

I'm theorizing (based on nothing but ballparks and eyeballs) Aegis's cap is probably based on level alone. I feel that Sanguine Rite's MP generation cap per hit is the same.

Alternately, could check lowest end shields too to see if there's just a block threshold that all high end shields already pass.

[TacoTaru]

Someone in my LS said that STR/PIE are the dominating stats for ARC now and past 280 see a large damage jump. Can anyone confirm this?

[Raldo]

ARC is DEX + PIE

I think the stat threshold stuff is a myth, but I have no evidence either way.

[Niiro]

Someone in my LS said that STR/PIE are the dominating stats for ARC now and past 280 see a large damage jump. Can anyone confirm this?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...IE-ATK-Testing

[Treach]

I think the latern has less block than vintage but they both give a 703 return on aegis? does this suggest that block and aegis HP return are unrelated? I only read some dude's post on it but never saw any verification that they were even related.

With Lominsan Lantern Shield I always get 703 (I think) back on Aegis, barring the Stoneskin bug messing it up. If there's other variables you need provided (max HP, etc) I can throw those out after testing a hit.

I get 703 with bladed lantern shield (lv39 70 block rate 57 block), same amount with all my hp gear, same amount with no hp gear, highly doubt anything other than character level affects the hp returned cap.

[TacoTaru]

Oops, I meant to post this the other day but forgot about it. When looking at the PIE/STR/DEX testing, it looks like the only reason STR is winning over DEX is because DEX isn't a mod for ANY of the ARC WS and Attack Power doesn't seem to cap. With that said, I thought the tests that were posted just a couple of pages ago showed STR actually capping, so is this an error for ARC or are all melee classes going to benefit the most from piling on STR? Or am I trying to simplify this too much and there's a lot more to it than that?

[Kaeko]

Oops, I meant to post this the other day but forgot about it. When looking at the PIE/STR/DEX testing, it looks like the only reason STR is winning over DEX is because DEX isn't a mod for ANY of the ARC WS and Attack Power doesn't seem to cap. With that said, I thought the tests that were posted just a couple of pages ago showed STR actually capping, so is this an error for ARC or are all melee classes going to benefit the most from piling on STR? Or am I trying to simplify this too much and there's a lot more to it than that?

I'd be interested in seeing this STR cap test.

STR/ATK actually can cap, but you will never see it unless you test on an extremely low level mob. For all things you care about killing, it won't cap. There is a 2:3 atk to str ratio that you mentioned that again, won't cap on anything worthwhile, which is why it's better to stack on WS after you cap your primary modifier (PIE in case of ARC).

There are 2 modifiers for each class. We think one of these will modifier both auto-attack and WS, while the other will only modifier auto-attack. For ARC this is PIE and DEX respectively. For LNC this is STR and PIE respectively. Based on some stuff we haven't posted yet, I can say that STR is the mod that affects both auto and WS for every class other than ARC. These both have caps. However, the cap is not necessarily the same for every job and may be dependent on variables we do not quite understand yet. Basically just because the PIE cap for light shot is 280 doesn't mean the autoattack cap for PIE on LNC is also 280.

This being said, when you stack STR, you will notice a slight "tier" effect. Say the cap is 290 on LNC. You will get gain for every STR for 2 reasons - (1) the 2:3 ATK/STR ratio, and (2) the fact that STR is the WS modifier for LNC class. So the effect is large. But after 290 STR, you will see a drop off in gain because you've capped the WS modifier; however, you will still see some gain through the 2:3 ATK/STR ratio.

Hope this helps, and again, I'd love to see the "STR caps" testing.

[Niiro]

The way I understand it:

Stats that "increases damage dealt by [JOB] weapons" (in the case of ARC; DEX and PIE) have fixed caps (seemingly dependent on your level alone, enemy level not being a factor) where they stop giving returns (~280-290 for L50). Also these stats seem to follow a pattern of both effecting AA damage but only one effecting WS damage as well (in the case of ARC, DEX effects AA only, PIE effects AA and WS).

As for STR, the benefit for ARC is from the attack it gives, STR itself doesn't increase ARC's damage but the attack gained from it does (2 attack for every 3 STR). Unlike the "increases damage dealt by [JOB] weapons" stats, ATK doesn't appear to have an arbitrary cap based on your level but is instead dependent on the level and/or DEF of your target (it will eventually stop giving returns on low level enemies but on higher level ones it continues to increase damage).

For all other melees, for whom STR is one of the "increases damage dealt by [JOB] weapons" stats; STR caps the same way DEX or PIE does for ARC but just as with ARC it continues to give ATK.

Summarizing Seiken's ARC summary:
-PIE is the most important stat until it is capped (~280) as it effects both AA and WS damage
-then raw ATK as it likewise effects both (and has no arbitrary cap)
-after raw ATK you should look for STR as it gives ATK indirectly
-DEX is last on the list as it only effects AA damage and has a hard cap like PIE



edit: beaten, had the window open way too long while I was eating

[TacoTaru]

The STR cap testing is actually a misread of mine and exactly what you said with this:

So the effect is large. But after 290 STR, you will see a drop off in gain because you've capped the WS modifier; however, you will still see some gain through the 2:3 ATK/STR ratio.

I had initially read this to mean that 290 was the cap, and adding any STR past this point will do nothing at all, even after figuring in the Atk. Power that will be gained because of it.

With that said, is this an error with the way Atk.Power is figured, correct, or is there anyway to really know? It seems odd to me that AA/WS stats have caps (STR, DEX, PIE, etc), but for whatever reason Atk.Power's seem to be much higher. Is there a meaningful reason to put Atk.Power's cap higher, or is not higher but rather not as easily reached as the base stats are? This seems like it's always going to make STR the valuable stat once both the AA/WS stats are capped, instead of keeping the class specific stats as the valuable ones (even though ARC is the only melee class that doesn't have STR as an AA stat).

I apologize if I'm not making sense with that, but I'm trying to understand this and I feel like I'm just not getting it ~_~

*Edit*
I think between Niiro and Kaeko I got it. Basically once 290 is obtained on both primary stats Atk.Power is the stat to chase, and STR only becomes meaningful because of it's Atk.Power association. My only question left then is, is there a reason for Atk.Power to cap so high instead of leveling off like other stats (as in, is it currently broken?) or if it capped lower would the actually be broken then in relation to how it works with Defense?

[Kaeko]

I don't really know if it's working as intended. But I can say that all stat increases give linear returns that are independent of each other beyond caps (STR, DEX, PIE, ATK, etc.). This makes it simple to find the best gear set because for instance, how much DEX you have will not change how PIE works. You just need to know the ratio of increase (if I increase X by Y amount, I get Z bonus), and pick the highest one.

To cite an example of co-dependence. In XI's magic attack formula, INT gave a raw increase while MATK gave a global % increase. So if someone asks the question is X INT better than Y MATK? - the answer is it depends on how much MATK and INT you already have (not only that, but what spell are you using)? In XIV there is a more simplistic answer, at least with regards to physical damage, because again the stats don't change their increases based on the current value of other stats.