Stats and how they work.

[Churchill]

AF Feet have PIE on them, if capped on PIE, refer to using Moccasins until better options are available.

But yeah, Caligae.

[Churchill]

Well more damage is a huge help when doing those runs. I'd say it's pretty much required you have good INT set, and m.atk set is like gravy. It becomes more necessary as you reduce BLMs in your party too, but I mean, who does that!? Lulz. Knowing BLMs have nice gear sets means you can effectively farm with 6 or 7 (25min runs that is). That's really nice when you can't get a full party y'know?

It's just usefull. Even when you know the speed run perfectly things can go wrong, the 2nd group in the Peiste Doblin room may not aggro the tank properly, or one of the BLMs was out of range and cast interrupted etc. So having extra damage never hurts. :D Plus if half the BLM finish off the mobs before the rest finish their cast, it means more MP at the end of Chimera, since it can get dangerous if you don't have enough MP for the boss and time is ticking. xD

Reference this, I wasn't trying to dig into anything, just making a sort of devils advocate type of point (one BLM having an awesome fire set, the rest normal gimp BLM's you take because they play MNK), thus "Are the gains really that noticeable" is more in terms of, did it really help get the 17m run, or were there other changes (method of farming, potions, etc) that contributed more to the success.

(For the record, I use a fire set as well)

I do have a question regarding this post (if they see it) or anyone else:

Wizard's Crakows (9INT)
vs
Spruce Pattens (3INT, 3MND, 1xTIV Hell's Fist (15MAB)

6INT bonus to Thundara > 15MAB to Thunder/Thundaga?

Edit:

Well more damage is a huge help when doing those runs. I'd say it's pretty much required you have good INT set, and m.atk set is like gravy. It becomes more necessary as you reduce BLMs in your party too, but I mean, who does that!? Lulz. Knowing BLMs have nice gear sets means you can effectively farm with 6 or 7 (25min runs that is). That's really nice when you can't get a full party y'know?

I haven't posted the MATK info because I want to be thorough first. But I can tell you ahead of time:

Point for point, MATK > INT for every spell in the game except Thundara on Combo (for reasons I won't get into here)
Point for point, INT > MATK by FAR when using Thundara on Combo
MATK > INT still for higher tier spells, but the difference is not as big for upper tier spells like Thundaga
Thundara on Combo becomes more efficient the less damage spells deal (for whatever reason, whether it is dlvl or resistance). Examples of this are Ifrit and Chimera.
INT, MATK, elemental potency are the only 3 "player controlled" stats that affect your non-critical damage with the exception of Holy, which has an additional MND modifier.
There is a MATK cap. You will never hit it on anything you care about.

I haven't started writing up MATK stuff on the blog yet so it'll be awhile before anything formal is up. There are still aspects of the formula I'm having difficulties with. Currently working with Seiken to flesh out things, but if it takes too long I'll just go ahead and post what I have.

Bolded being what we knew, sans INT throwing a bone to Ice spells, bolded/italicized being something a lot of us have noticed while fighting say, Chimera (Thundaga is p.bad).

I think my biggest question as far as damage is what does Lightning Potency do? Does it add to Magic Attack? Or is it a bonus via %?

So I went out and tested it myself, I started on Lv1 mobs and found out that those are pretty worthless to find variances with. I'll post it in a spoiler but it's pretty irrelevant.

Spoiler: show

256INT/439MAB

256INT/441MAB

256INT/465MAB

256INT/440MAB/25Lightning 1

256INT/440MAB/25Lightning 2

So after that, I went and ran out to do some 52 Amaljaa Lancers and got some nice changes, though not necessarily an answer to my question. I first did a test with equal MAB to using a Lightning Choker+1, minus having the 25 Lightning Potency. I then did the test with the choker, and then a test with equal MAB to the choker if in fact Lightning Potency really just meant "Lightning Magic Attack Bonus". The last test I did was with the same MAB as my equal to the choker test, but also with the choker on; the purpose of this being to see if at a higher total MAB, the Lightning Potency would act more as a percentage increase than as straight MAB.

Test 1 (MAB equal to choker, sans Lightning Potency)
374INT/469MAB
Min 414/Max 455/Median 434.5

Test 2 (Same MAB as Test 1 with choker added)
374INT/469MAB/25Lightning
Min 441/Max 488/Median 464.5

Test 3 (MAB equal as if Lightning Potency worked as MAB)
374INT/494MAB
Min 441/Max 486/Median 463.5

Test 4 (Higher MAB, choker added)
374INT/494MAB/25Lightning
Min 476/Max 519/Median 497.5

First thing I saw was that Test 2 and 3 had nearly equal values, close enough to potentially say that I just didn't hit the same "max" value (though I tried, very hard lol).

The increase in damage from Test 1 to Test 2 was 6.9%, while the increase for Test 1 to Test 3 was 6.67%. Again though, these could probably be identical and I just didn't get the max value I was looking for in Test 3.

The increase in damage from Test 3 to Test 4 was 7.3%. Sadly this is also close enough to not really be conclusive. If someone has a link to something more conclusive, I'd be interested to see it. (as it isn't posted in the OP).

[Enygma55]

Element Potency is the same as regular M.atkk but specific for that element only. Those values on gear are generally higher than normal M.atkk in the same slot.

Example is a Hell's Fist Tier IV M.atkk materia is in the 11-15 range where as the Element Potency materias Tier IV is in the 22-30 range.

[Niiro]

Yea, probably should have just asked before going out and doing all that testing. It's something we've known for...everish.

[Churchill]

I did ask, no one answered!

Do we know point for point what MAB does for damage, by level? That would help answer my actual question, what's better between AF boots or 15MAB/Spruce Pattens (or better, via Lightning Potency)

[Enygma55]

BLM falls back to the basic rule of:

If your main source of dmg is Thunder: Stack INT
If your main source of dmg is Fire: Stack M.atk

Adjust your gear according to that per event. I wouldnt try to min/max or analyze anymore at this point with 2.0 in the loom that most likely will change alot of the dmg formula around but those rules should still hold.

[Churchill]

That's not really what I'm asking though, basically, the question breaks down to the following things:

Do we know a point for point ratio for MAB:: Damage and INT:: Damage in regards to Thunder/Thundaga and Thundara, respectively. (And how does it scale to dLvl)

Between Wizard's Crakows (9INT) and Spruce Pattens (3INT, 3MND, 15MAB+) which is better and when.

I understand MAB for Fire spells, and I also understand that things may change for 2.0, but I'm curious if this data is already known.

For example, in the darnus parse that was posted, INT came out to be ~1.25dmg/point, and MAB came out to be ~0.5dmg/point.

Wizard's Crakows
Thunder-1dmg
Thundara-11.25

Spruce Pattens
Thunder-8
Thundara-3.75

Assuming no other factors and that data set, you could say Spruce Pattens with a perfect TIV single meld would at least equal Wizard's Crakows on more difficult content, and probably do a lot better in situations where mobs are a bit lower level and MAB has a potentially higher ratio. Not to mention, I typically cast more Thunders than Thundaras just due to recast timers, so it would make up a bit more damage (overall) there too. A pair of specialized Thunder20~30 Spruce Pattens would easily outdo (again, based on what you can draw from the darnus data) Wizard's Crakows.

Edit: The main reason I wanted to find out what Lightning potency did was to analyze that data better, lol.

[Enygma55]

I dont think anyone has broken down the point for point basis of INT or MAB, but to my understanding they work together in the dmg formula for spells. What I mean by that is you will get more dmg out of every spell if you balance out that ratio. Having +100 INT and +5MATK will be less dmg than if you do +45INT and +60 MATK (for other spells besides thundara).

Thundara combo gives a +700 MAB to the spell and because of that reason, raising INT will significally bring up the dmg of it. For other spells that dont get that bonus, pumping MATK will push out more dmg than INT will point for point. If all you are casting is Thunder > Thundara, INT will far outweight MATK regardless of how many times more u cast Thunder compared to Thundara. (wont be more than 2/1 or 3/1 ratio)

I guess you can say MATK scales better than raw INT for every spell (including white magic). There isnt a dmg/point that is easy to identify I dont believe. The more MATK you have the more INT will help raise overall spell dmg. Its complicated lol.

In the case of your boots choice, if all you are casting is thunder combo, I'd go for the AF, if you are THM/BLM in the darnus fight throwing out aero to help with golems or extra thunders to kill meteors, i'd go with the Spruce with the 15MAB. Also remember that every ~4INT adds 1MATK.


EDIT: ok found the Kaeko post that stated what I said better and easier to understand and a better understanding of the spell dmg formula. (back on page 16)

So the easy explanation (which is actually the exact explanation) is that Thundara combo uses the exact same formula as thundara non-combo but adds +700 MATK.

The reason INT is better than MATK for Thundara (Combo) has to do with diminishing returns. INT and MATK essentially multiply each other in the formula so you want to "balance" the 2 out. In normal situations you need more MATK, but if the game gives you +700, then you need more INT. That's the easiest way I can phrase it without a math example.

This also explains why Thundara works so well on high level targets. The formula has a MATK-ELERESIST check, but there is no INT check. Your INT is your INT. So by adding +700 MATK, you are trying to overcome the increased stats on the opponent. This explains why the less damage you do on spells, the more effective that +700 MATK will become.

[Churchill]

Store TP:

Tested with and without Darklight Corselet (+40STP)

DRG (5% Store TP bonus):
[email protected] delay
No Corselet - 389TP
Corselet - 404TP

Ifrit's [email protected] delay
No Corselet - 399TP
Corselet - 415TP

Bard:
Giantsgall [email protected] delay
No Corselet - 420TP
Corselet - 437TP

Monk:
Ifrit's [email protected] delay:
No Corselet - 330 (165per fist)TP
Corselet - 344 (172 per fist)TP

Notes:
Closest number to "guess" with would be a 4% increase with Corselet. Reason I say closest is that some TP values round up, while others round down.

Applying this to say, a Mistress zerg. If I do 54/55 (miss one) attacks, I gain 17,820TP without the Corselet, but with the Corselet I gain 18576TP (Not even an additional WS). Throw also returns TP based on main weapon and is effected by StoreTP (as is Shoulder Tackle, etc), just as a tidbit for anyone who is wanting to know. I might also be doubling attacks up, I don't know if BG parser counts MNK rounds as two attacks or one, so that TP gained could be even less.

[Raldo]

Closest number to "guess" with would be a 4% increase with Corselet. Reason I say closest is that some TP values round up, while others round down. At first I thought DRG's 5% bonus might be a different step (eg, (*1.05)*1.04) because the values didn't round up properly, but if you look at Ifrit's Claws, 330*1.04=343.2 (not 344).

If you factor in the DRG bonus as a different step, but do it after the bonus from gear ((base*1.04)*1.05), then all your values fit right into place with +40STP being exactly a +4% bonus. With your data, however, it is impossible to say whether or not it rounds between each step or not.

370 * 1.04 -> 384.8
384.8 * 1.05 -> 404.4 (rounds down to 404)
385 * 1.05 -> 404.25 (rounds down to 404)

380 * 1.04 -> 395.2
395.2 * 1.05 -> 414.96 (rounds up to 415)
395 * 1.05 -> 414.75 (rounds up to 415)

They are most definitely rounding to the nearest integer. (x < .5, round down; x > .5, round up) It is impossible to say at this point whether they round up or down when x == .5

Thank you for the data! I had asked a long time ago how potent Store TP was, but no one was ever able to answer.

[Churchill]

It doesn't, it is exactly 344->688, etc, unless you mean a cumulative total (like XI) where decimal integers are hidden until they become whole numbers, in which case that would be odd to do it in reverse.

Eg, 5 attack rounds, 344, 344, 344, 344, 343 (Using 343.2 for Ifrit's Claws)

[Raldo]

It doesn't, it is exactly 344->688, etc, unless you mean a cumulative total (like XI) where decimal integers are hidden until they become whole numbers, in which case that would be odd to do it in reverse.

Eg, 5 attack rounds, 344, 344, 344, 344, 343 (Using 343.2 for Ifrit's Claws)

I don't understand what part of my post you are targetting...? "It doesn't" -- what is "it"?

Note: It looks like I was still editing after you posted, so that may be what's causing my confusion.

[Churchill]

I think I misunderstood what you were getting at, before your edit. Basically, in XI, StoreTP values may have been 17.5, and for one hit you would get 17TP and the next you would get 18TP. It would save the values but hide them.

I thought you were implying it may need to be verified that XIV didn't do something similar, and I thought it would be odd if it did because it is giving you a rounded up value first.

Edit:
Your edit is exactly what I mean, for DRG it seems to follow normal rounding procedures, but for MNK it rounded 343.2->344. This is also what made me think you meant the value may be stored, but hidden.

[Raldo]

Your edit is exactly what I mean, for DRG it seems to follow normal rounding procedures, but for MNK it rounded 343.2->344. This is also what made me think you meant the value may be stored, but hidden.

Ah, I can answer this one. TP is calculated per hit.

330 base, means each hit is 165TP. If you apply the Store TP to every hit, and round each time, you'll get your end result.

165 * 1.04 = 171.6 (round to 172)
172 + 172 = 344

This is probably done to make it easier for the system to figure out how much TP to give you when you miss a single attack.

[Churchill]

Ah, that makes more sense then.

[Raldo]

If anyone has both a Garuda lance + darklight corselet, we could figure out whether or not it rounds between every calculation of a single hit too. Just let us know how much TP you get per hit with those two things equipped.
310 * 1.04 = 322.4
322.4 * 1.05 = 338.52 (rounds up to 339) <- doesn't round between calculations
322 * 1.05 = 338.1 (rounds down to 338) <- rounds between calculations

[Phops]

1.04*1.05=1.092 = +9.2%
That's why the numbers round down.
You don't have to multiply the percentages, just directly add them (1.05+1.04=1.09).

370 * 1.09 -> 403.33 (rounds up to 404)
380 * 1.09 -> 414.2 (rounds up to 415)

[Raldo]

That's certainly another possibility, though I find it hard to believe SE would actually round in our favor. More data needed, I guess.

If you have a Corselet and an Ifrit's Bow or Garuda bow, we could find out.

If Phops is correct, the Ifrit's Bow would give you 448TP instead of my expected 447TP and the Garuda bow would give you 323TP instead of my expected 322TP.

[Niiro]

If my accidental accuracy discovery (posted earlier) is any indication, XIV isn't big on rounding.

If they calculate hit rate to within .01% it's possible they leave a lot of decimals lying around.

[n0pax]

Random quick question, sorry I really cannot find this answer anywhere besides the strip down and getting naked idea, which is too close for me to feel comfortable with. WAR primary stat is STR and secondary is VIT correct? So if I was using moogle axe I'd want around 340 STR and 310 VIT? Thank you very much in advance!