Learning to code?

[Eliseos]

The only advantage you really get learning c++ as your first language is experience with memory management. Students I've seen that learn Java (my school switched from c++ as the main language to Java the year before I graduated) don't really get exposed to pointers, what pass-by-reference/value are or why they are important, and freeing up memory. It can lead to developing bad habits that will transfer into a professional career and cause major issues if the programmer isn't cognizant of it, especially in a real-time environment like gaming. Java/C# are a lot easier to program with than C/C++ so it might be better to start with that, if you do decide to start on your own, then look online for some c++ examples on memory management.

Edit: And yeah, every single interview I've ever had asked questions that only someone who has experience in c++ would know, specifically the memory management I talked about. I wouldn't have my job if I didn't know basic things about pointers etc.

[Senoska]

Psh, I've gotten jobs knowing only Actionscript. That's nonsense. Perhaps in the gaming industry, but certainly not all the programming industry. I know C++, but avoid using it when I don't have to use it. Last resort kind of thing.

[aurik]

^ hallmark of a bad programmer.

[Maguspk]

If you need a screwdriver you need a screwdriver, languages are just tools, like I said watch the MIT lectures. I've had friends mention they wanted to try programming and I just point them to the lectures I linked earlier, usually they get through 1, get frustrated trying to do the first assignment or something and then give up. I don't know maybe FFXI during highschool made me stubborn and persistent, but when I see something new I just try to conquer it, heh. Watch the lectures and see if you get an itch to do something, if you don't programming isn't for you. Anyone can program but only certain people can write good code, and that's all we need, don't need anymore code monkeys, especially not in the gaming industry

[Toxictaru]

I don't necessarily disagree with anyone here, but if you're looking for an actual career switch, you're going to need a piece of paper that says you know how to do it. I wrote my first programs 18 years ago, but never went to school to "learn." Now I'm stuck working crappy jobs while I finish my degree, which for me has so far been a very expensive piece of paper to say I know how to do something I've been doing for years. Fortunately I only have about 8 months to go until I graduate.

Just be aware that, as has been mentioned, you're desire for a career change isn't likely to come cheap.

[Sho]

C++ shouldn't be avoided at all. It's the only language I'd say just about every serious programmer should know well if nothing else. Eliseos covered the main reasons why.

[idklol]

Well i'm quite overwhelmed by the responses lol. I do want to get into this as a career but i'd admit my knowledge of it is pretty thin. Gaming is a passion of mine which is why i'm drawn towards it. I'm also not stupid and have no desire to dive head first into it now and then a year down the line realise it's not for me. That's the situation i'm in at the moment. I'm a fully qualified mechanic who 6 years after leaving school with only GCSEs is seriously regretting ever coming down this path. I was young and foolish and most of all didn't have much of an idea of what i wanted to do.

At this moment in time i'm not looking to learn a specific part of coding, just it in general to see if i get it, what i think of it, if i like it etc. So far so good but i've barely scratched the surface. Lots of links and advice been posted, thanks a million. Gonna crack on through it and see what happens!

[Zhais]

Your first programming assignment (And I'm very serious about this):

Tell me how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

Especially if you're just looking into the generalities of it idklol. Answer this! ^

[Sho]

Your first programming assignment (And I'm very serious about this):

Tell me how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

I always started off with "First you go to the store and buy the peanut butter, bread, and jelly"...

Seriously though, it was an awesome question, and I wish at least one of my professors asked me it forever ago. :\

[Zhais]

And as other random asides go:

As a web programmer, I have to bounce between so many different languages all the time. VB/C# .NET, VbScript, javascript, T-SQL, php occasionally, perl, and the very occasional c++ for some unmanaged dlls. It really is all about the underlying core concepts. Once you know the concepts, bouncing between or learning a new language is a piece of cake.

I feel I wouldn't know as much as I know now if my college education hadn't taught c++. They switched over to Java as I was leaving, which kind of made me mad. The next generation of graduates will never have to know about pointers and pointer manipulation, direct memory management, etc. VB/C# are very powerful tools, but they hide so much from a newbie programmer.

There's something satisfying with c++ when you interact with sockets / TCP communication on a lower level... or when playing with pointers you learn just how powerful (and dangerous) they can be.

[Senoska]

^ hallmark of a bad programmer.

Depends largely on what you're doing I guess. A lot of the applications I write are simple tasks automated, like logging into a website and doing some shit.. These applications need speed in development more than anything, and c# is just that, speed like a mothafucka. There are some problems to it, though. I'm not saying its perfect. For example, no socks proxy support is very annoying and a bitch to code by hand. C++ is great, I just look at it for what it is. Memory usage and learning pointers and what not is fantastic. I'm not saying I'm opposed to C++, just I'd rather use C# or java for quicker development, less work on my end, etc etc.

[Fairy-Killer]

Bjarne Stroustup is actually one the heads of our department so C++ is shoved down our throats (rightfully) here. But yeah, don't try to go into a gaming industry without C/C++. C will make you manage your memory more so I'd suggest C++ first and going back to C unless you think you can handle every bit of memory. And Senoska, that's great that you use C# for your career, but the guy wants to break into the gaming industry. Saying C++ is crap kinda... lol. He might end up doing something else with his career, and even then C++ would be better than C#. I think I saw 2-3 jobs that required C# out of the 30+ I applied for a couple weeks ago, while all of them required C++. I looked at interning at a gaming company, but they require so much more than just any other job and I don't have the free time to dedicate to developing a video game.

[aurik]

Depends largely on what you're doing I guess.

It does, which means if you're looking to get into game dev, C# is not the right tool to pick. For typical studios (ie, not making $1 mobile games), C / C++ is by far the predominant language. C# is sometimes used for internal tools but often those are written in C++. Automation is typically done with perl/python/etc. Game scripting is usually done in lua these days (but sometimes other embedded scripting languages).

C#'s niche is very small.

[Senoska]

Bjarne Stroustup is actually one the heads of our department so C++ is shoved down our throats (rightfully) here. But yeah, don't try to go into a gaming industry without C/C++. C will make you manage your memory more so I'd suggest C++ first and going back to C unless you think you can handle every bit of memory. And Senoska, that's great that you use C# for your career, but the guy wants to break into the gaming industry. Saying C++ is crap kinda... lol. He might end up doing something else with his career, and even then C++ would be better than C#. I think I saw 2-3 jobs that required C# out of the 30+ I applied for a couple weeks ago, while all of them required C++. I looked at interning at a gaming company, but they require so much more than just any other job and I don't have the free time to dedicate to developing a video game.

I'll accept that point if that is his for-sure end goal. Although, learning Javascript right now would allude to other things. I was simply plugging it for its ease of use and the fact XNA is built on it which makes a simple transition.

#include <iostream>
using std::cout;
using std::endl;

#include <string>
using std::string;

int main()
{
string string1( "abc edfgh ijk lmno pqr stu vw xyz" );

cout << "Original string:\n" << string1 << endl << endl;

int position = string1.find( "." ); // find first period

while ( position != string::npos )
{
string1.replace( position, 2, "12345;;123", 5, 2 );
position = string1.find( ".", position + 1 );
}

cout << string1 << endl;

return 0;
}   

vs

String blah = "blahblahblah";
String replaced = blah.Replace('h', 'n');

For a beginner learning concepts, which of this is going to be easier to learn?

[quannum]

shit is situational.
want to write phone apps? go download the iphone/android SDKs and use their language requirements as your starting point
psn mini, xbla indy or steam? go get the xbla sdk and ... probably c#
real games™? find out what people use on the consoles/pc, probably ANSI C and asm.

oh and web browser games in html5 or flash is another category

[Corrderio]

shit is situational.
want to write phone apps? go download the iphone/android SDKs and use their language requirements as your starting point
psn mini, xbla indy or steam? go get the xbla sdk and ... probably c#
real games™? find out what people use on the consoles/pc, probably ANSI C and asm.

oh and web browser games in html5 or flash is another category

This is something else to consider. What type of platform you want to program on.

If you do something like indie development I don't think it will affect you too much (I know a few people that used Java, some that used C#, and some that used VB). However for an actual company they'll probably be set on one language (In Valve's case, C++).


Anyway, since we're on the subject here, I to was thinking of going into the gaming industry at some point. So what kind of programs should I look for in a CS degree? I know I'll probably need C++ (Since my school teaches C#), physics, and maybe some other things, but what exactly?

[aurik]

real games™? find out what people use on the consoles/pc, probably ANSI C and asm.

As I've said several times already. C++, scripting in lua.

There's very little assembly, mainly because of lack of portability.

Anyway, since we're on the subject here, I to was thinking of going into the gaming industry at some point. So what kind of programs should I look for in a CS degree? I know I'll probably need C++ (Since my school teaches C#), physics, and maybe some other things, but what exactly?

You'll want to know the basics of memory management, graphics, networking, concurrency, OOP.
The more time you can spend learning on/about algorithms the better. I recommend getting the Knuth books.
Design patterns is very useful.
Learn how to use the debugger effectively.
Once you get a year or two into your degree, you should start hobby-programming to build out your resume.

[Fairy-Killer]

I have an interview coming up on the 26th with Southwest Research Institute, I'll post back in this thread with some info on the kind of questions they ask so you'll have more a feel on what to learn. It's not the gaming industry, but it will be one of the harder possibilities with coding/computer engineering.

[Corrderio]

You'll want to know the basics of memory management, graphics, networking, concurrency, OOP.
The more time you can spend learning on/about algorithms the better. I recommend getting the Knuth books.
Design patterns is very useful.
Learn how to use the debugger effectively.
Once you get a year or two into your degree, you should start hobby-programming to build out your resume.

Makes sense. My idea was to save up for about 2-3 years after I graduate so I will have a decent sum of money for a higher college when I take another crack at it. My degree is based more on business but I'm sure I can figure out how to make a game as a hobby if I put my mind to it.

I did have an idea for something, but think it's way too complex for a beginner program.

[Viena]

Just don't be silly and learn something like Scheme / Ada. While nice languages, hardly anyone uses the functional programming paradigm in a professional environment.

I just wanted to nitpick a little bit on this statement. Ada is not a functional language, and it's indeed hardly used outside of reliability critical environments (ESA/CERN/Airbus that I know of, for instance). However, there's a few Universities that start teaching programming with it, and I do believe that it's certainly a great language to learn to program with; the reason being that the pedantic nature of its compiler, included run-time checks and informative error messages can really help in understanding and solving many of the common mistakes that most people do when they begin to code. As already said, learning another imperative language when the concepts themselves are already ironed out it's certainly easy.

There's also many universities that start teaching with c++ and use g++ as a compiler. If one asked me, I pity the poor souls that have to deal with the often undecipherable error messages and uninformative seg faults.