October 19th Black This Out

[Uzor]

I never said they hate our freedoms. You're horribly misinformed if you believe people hate America for their "freedom".

[The Blackrose]

As much as I dismiss Ron Paul for the mumbled whackjob he is, I can't believe someone actually took the time to talk out their ass and defend PATRIOT.

We are through the looking glass.

[test123]

I feel like I've thrown this around really recently. Oh well! Here it is again.

"I don't think the civil war was necessary." - Ron Paul.

Why don't you finish that quote.

[Talint]

Why don't you finish that quote.

These videos do not help Ron Paul any.

-edit-

Actually, I'll be a little less glib. They show a remarkable lack of understanding of context and history. Unsurprisingly, when it comes down to an analysis of Ron Paul's positions, they show the exact same problem; a lack of understanding of context and history.

[Uzor]

As much as I dismiss Ron Paul for the mumbled whackjob he is, I can't believe someone actually took the time to talk out their ass and defend PATRIOT.

We are through the looking glass.

I'll bite. How did it personally affect you negatively, and how is the act itself bad?

It's not perfect, and it has certainly been taken advantage of, but the intent of the act itself is good, imo.

[Kuya]

Why does uzor's location say sweden, when the guy sounds like an american jingoist.

[tyven]

ron paul is so cute in his oversized suit, i just want to give him a hug

[Uzor]

Why does uzor's location say sweden, when the guy sounds like an american jingoist.

Don't get me wrong, I loath bush in the same way that I loath Hillary Clinton, but they both have their moments. Hillary Clinton, for example, may very well be the best Secretary of State you've had. I in no way support everything about the patriotic act, but it has parts that's very beneficial.

[Kuya]

I mean i know there are right-wingers in Europe but this is so confusing

[Uzor]

By American standards, I'm lefter than even your most left-wing politicians. I do, however, realize that left-wings don't get everything right, and that occasionally even right-wing politicians can have good ideas.

You can't honestly claim that you have to be either left, center or right-wing, and that whichever political views you have have to 100% align with the rest of your group of people. Hell, I'm a member of the Swedish Green Party, but I don't agree with everything they day. For example, I'm a strong advocate of nuclear power (while everyone else stand outside with sings protesting).

Both sides have good ideas. I don't see the harm in taking the bst from both worlds. Isn't that what politics is about? I hate how politicians from different parties vote down each other's ideas automatically simply because they belong to another party. The whole political system's strongest link is also it's greatest flaw.

[Kuya]

Ah, so you're an idiot. My mistake.

[Uzor]

You're free to think that. It's part of your constitutional right, after all.

[eunhye]

Both sides have good ideas. I don't see the harm in taking the bst from both worlds. Isn't that what politics is about? I hate how politicians from different parties vote down each other's ideas automatically simply because they belong to another party. The whole political system's strongest link is also it's greatest flaw.

I must be an idiot too if I agree with this.

[Kuya]

I'm referring to this wisdom.

You do realize the patriot act was created to defend USA, right? USA,as it is, is impenetrable from the outside. It's in the middle of a fucking ocean, sand the only way to get to it is by boat or air. And the USA defense is set up so that anything it doesn't want near them will just be shot down. Not even a golf ball could get close without being detected. No, the greatest threat, and USA's greatest weakness is that all defenses were fine-tuned to detect outside threats, and not those coming from within - as was the case on 9/11. The patriotic act was created for the purpose of detecting threats from within. Abolishing the Patriot Act would only serve the purpose of opening yourselvesup again.

Oh, and the Patriot Act stands for "Uniting (and) Strenghtening America (by) Providing Appropriate Tools Required (to) Intercept (and) Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001", in case you didn't know. So technically it is patriotic, as it's designed to zealously protect the country. The again, I wouldn't expect a Ron Paul follower to understand that.

It sounds like the work of someone who doesn't actually know what the Patriot Act is, and what it entails.

[Uzor]

I know what it is. Do humor me though; what is it, as I'm obviously wrong.

[Kuya]

If you know what it is, and what its consequences are (hence why people mock the patriot in patriot act) then why have you not proven that in the discussion?

[Dantrag]

It's because it allows invasion of privacy without due process of requiring warrants for wiretaps and what not. Long list of shit they can do that most American's consider "un-patriotic"

[Uzor]

I do believe I've said several times that I don't approve of all the consequences the Patriot Act has lead to, but that the act itself has good intent. Like many other things, it's abused. The Patriot Act isn't the only newly-formed law or act that has been abused.

It's because it allows invasion of privacy without due process of requiring warrants for wiretaps and what not. Long list of shit they can do that most American's consider "un-patriotic"

Firstly; it only invades your privacy if you have things to hide. The government doesn't care that you have affairs. It's the same with security cameras; you only have too fear them if you break the law in the first place.

Secondly, those people obviously don't know what the word patriotic means. A patriot is someone who loves and defends his country, sometimes zealously. In what way is it un-patriotic? Does it somehow not defend the country? What itboils down to is that people don't understand what the word patriot means, and that they're terrified the government will find out they're cheating on their wives. Everyone, after all, have skeletons in the closet. And since everyone is so self-centered and "important", they believe that the government will find all of their skeletons. Why wouldn't they? They are, after all, the most impostant person in America among the other 200-something milion people in the country.

I don't blame them though. Patriot and freedom are two words that are commonly thrown around in America, and it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of people don't even know what the words means; they just know they're good and that "America is all about it".

[kuronosan]

Firstly; it only invades your privacy if you have things to hide. The government doesn't care that you have affairs. It's the same with security cameras; you only have too fear them if you break the law in the first place.

Yes, unless you fear having your privacy stripped away. While we're using such retarded broad definitions as "It's only invasion of privacy if you're hiding something", let's do away with rape laws. After all, it's only rape if the girl is screaming "no" and "stop".

Your logic is terrible. Please use a different argument.

Secondly, those people obviously don't know what the word patriotic means. A patriot is someone who loves and defends his country, sometimes zealously. In what way is it un-patriotic?

patriot (n) - A person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.

Nowhere in this definition does it say they love their country. Only that they're zealous in its defense in perceived enemies or detractors. The Palestinians, by this definition, are patriots. The Taliban could be considered patriots by definition. There is no inherent good or bad within the definition of patriot.

In other words, just because something or someone is known as a patriot does not make it a good thing or a bad thing. It's all about the point of view.

Does it somehow not defend the country? What itboils down to is that people don't understand what the word patriot means, and that they're terrified the government will find out they're cheating on their wives.

You're ignorant. You yourself clearly don't understand what patriot means. In this context, it essentially means whether you need to be defended or not, whether you agree with the tactics or belief of said law or lawmakers, you will be defended against your will, regardless of your beliefs or convictions. So if you don't like being spied on because it's unconstitutional (not to mention unethical) you will have this forced on you anyway. Nobody gives a crap about being caught cheating or masturbating in their office space. What they do care about is having somebody listen in on their personal lives, subjectively making judgment calls as to what is or isn't terrorist talk. They're afraid they can't make "lol just blow the building up" jokes anymore or else the feds will get them.

I mean, seriously?

Everyone, after all, have skeletons in the closet. And since everyone is so self-centered and "important", they believe that the government will find all of their skeletons. Why wouldn't they? They are, after all, the most impostant person in America among the other 200-something milion people in the country.

There is a difference between keeping skeletons in your closet, having your skeletons come out of the closet, and having a camera in your house that watches you put them in there. Nobody should have their privacy invaded. I'm of the belief that we should commit to any means necessary to detain terrorists and prevent attacks, but I believe it starts with our foreign policy. Shit is backwards. We send money, aid, and relief overseas when it should come here; we survey and spy here when it should be overseas.

If our government paid more attention to cables and intelligence warning them of terrorist action, as Bush and others had failed to do, there wouldn't be a need for a bullshit act designed to further control people and their lives.

I don't blame them though. Patriot and freedom are two words that are commonly thrown around in America, and it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of people don't even know what the words means; they just know they're good and that "America is all about it".

This statement is wrought with hilarity.

freedom (n) - The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint.

Yea. The Patriot Act really defends that.

[Dantrag]

I do believe I've said several times that I don't approve of all the consequences the Patriot Act has lead to, but that the act itself has good intent. Like many other things, it's abused. The Patriot Act isn't the only newly-formed law or act that has been abused.




Firstly; it only invades your privacy if you have things to hide. The government doesn't care that you have affairs. It's the same with security cameras; you only have too fear them if you break the law in the first place.

Secondly, those people obviously don't know what the word patriotic means. A patriot is someone who loves and defends his country, sometimes zealously. In what way is it un-patriotic? Does it somehow not defend the country? What itboils down to is that people don't understand what the word patriot means, and that they're terrified the government will find out they're cheating on their wives. Everyone, after all, have skeletons in the closet. And since everyone is so self-centered and "important", they believe that the government will find all of their skeletons. Why wouldn't they? They are, after all, the most impostant person in America among the other 200-something milion people in the country.

I don't blame them though. Patriot and freedom are two words that are commonly thrown around in America, and it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of people don't even know what the words means; they just know they're good and that "America is all about it".

Having nothing to hide and having someone spy without probable cause are two different things. There is absolutely no reason the FBI should be able to spy on someone... wait for it.... without PROBABLE cause. It doesn't matter what the reason. Things like this open up for MORE legislation that allows the authorities even MORE power. Which is not what the United States was built on. It maybe fine in other countries but we enjoy things such as due process. Not to mention the patriot act also opened doors for "enhanced" interrogation techniques, which are also considered un-patriotic.