October 19th Black This Out

[Uzor]

Yes, unless you fear having your privacy stripped away. While we're using such retarded broad definitions as "It's only invasion of privacy if you're hiding something", let's do away with rape laws. After all, it's only rape if the girl is screaming "no" and "stop".

Your logic is terrible. Please use a different argument.

It's not even on the same scale as rape. And it doesn't stip away on your privacy. It invades your privacy in the same way that the new scanners on airport strips away your privacy. The people hired to sit there looking at the pictures doesn't take pleasure in looking at a doll-version of an overweight Jane Doe. They don't care what said Jane Doe looks like unless she has a weapon.

patriot (n) - A person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.

Nowhere in this definition does it say they love their country. Only that they're zealous in its defense in perceived enemies or detractors. The Palestinians, by this definition, are patriots. The Taliban could be considered patriots by definition. There is no inherent good or bad within the definition of patriot.

Yes. They are patriots. I don't see how this counters my argument that the patriot act is, by definition, patriotic.

In other words, just because something or someone is known as a patriot does not make it a good thing or a bad thing. It's all about the point of view.

It has nothing to do with good or bad. The patriot act is still patriotic, even if you consider it a bad thing. Like you said, it's the point of view.

You're ignorant. You yourself clearly don't understand what patriot means. In this context, it essentially means whether you need to be defended or not, whether you agree with the tactics or belief of said law or lawmakers, you will be defended against your will, regardless of your beliefs or convictions. So if you don't like being spied on because it's unconstitutional (not to mention unethical) you will have this forced on you anyway. Nobody gives a crap about being caught cheating or masturbating in their office space. What they do care about is having somebody listen in on their personal lives, subjectively making judgment calls as to what is or isn't terrorist talk. They're afraid they can't make "lol just blow the building up" jokes anymore or else the feds will get them.

I understand perfectly fine what patriot meas. Whether you like it or not, the government IS THERE TO DEFEND YOU, whether you like it or not. The government's job IS to defend the interest of it's people, and keeping them safe from harm, and protecting the country's interests. The Patriot Act does just that.

There is a difference between keeping skeletons in your closet, having your skeletons come out of the closet, and having a camera in your house that watches you put them in there. Nobody should have their privacy invaded. I'm of the belief that we should commit to any means necessary to detain terrorists and prevent attacks, but I believe it starts with our foreign policy. Shit is backwards. We send money, aid, and relief overseas when it should come here; we survey and spy here when it should be overseas.

Again, there's over 200 million people in USA. Not even 1% of those have cameras in their house placed there by the government. Exactly why would they put a camera in your house to watch you put your skeletons in your closet?

Probably cause IS just that. Out of 200 mil people, they don't put cameras in everyone's houses. They won't spend resources "for fun", they only do it if they suspect something. Otherwise it's a huge waste of resources.

This statement is wrought with hilarity.

freedom (n) - The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint.

Yea. The Patriot Act really defends that.

You only further prove my point. Patriot and Freedom is not the same thing, as your reasoning seem to suggest you believe.

Having nothing to hide and having someone spy without probable cause are two different things. There is absolutely no reason the FBI should be able to spy on someone... wait for it.... without PROBABLE cause. It doesn't matter what the reason. Things like this open up for MORE legislation that allows the authorities even MORE power. Which is not what the United States was built on. It maybe fine in other countries but we enjoy things such as due process. Not to mention the patriot act also opened doors for "enhanced" interrogation techniques, which are also considered un-patriotic.

Again, they don't spy on everyone as you seem to believe. If you seriously think the FBI follows your every move because of the Patriotic Act, and that the CIA have wired your entire appartment and keeps a schedule of everything you do, you're just paranoid.

[Rhinox]

What do you call those people that support authority in whatever action they take?

[Dantrag]

Again, they don't spy on everyone as you seem to believe. If you seriously think the FBI follows your every move because of the Patriotic Act, and that the CIA have wired your entire appartment and keeps a schedule of everything you do, you're just paranoid.

My point is that THEY CAN. I never said they did. I said THEY CAN. WITHOUT A WARRANT OR PROBABLE CAUSE.

[kuronosan]

What do you call those people that support authority in whatever action they take?

Stupid?

[Uzor]

Fact of the matter is, unless you're a muslim, they don't give a fuck.

[kuronosan]

Is your proof empirical or do you actually have something to back that up with?

[Uzor]

I have no facts to back it up as it was mainly ment as a half-joke.

[Kerberoz]

Poe's.

[hey]

guard the US boarder, rather then the afghan, korean, japanese, german+++ boarders. 900 bases wtf?? That is not national defence, that is saving face for a collapsing empire.

In the case of Japan, we do have a valid reason to be there. Japan is constitutionally prohibited from maintaining a military, and instead rely on us, and others, for protection. Although they do have a small "military" (technically it's part of their police, but is equipped similar to a military), it is designed entirely for defense.

No idea why we have any significant presence in the other countries though.

[Cail]

In the case of Japan, we do have a valid reason to be there. Japan is constitutionally prohibited from maintaining a military, and instead rely on us, and others, for protection. Although they do have a small "military" (technically it's part of their police, but is equipped similar to a military), it is designed entirely for defense.

No idea why we have any significant presence in the other countries though.

korea is the same way, no? in that we're their primary means of defense

[archibaldcrane]

korea is the same way, no? in that we're their primary means of defense

Korea has mandatory conscription into their pretty advanced and sizable armed forces. It's pretty different.

[Cail]

Korea has mandatory conscription into their pretty advanced and sizable armed forces. It's pretty different.

i didnt know thus i asked. The More You Know~~

[Norellicus]

Ron Paul has always struck me as the kind of guy who would cut off his hand to prevent the pain from a papercut, sure it's effective but it's hardly practical and usually just does more damage.

[archibaldcrane]

I don't see how this counters my argument that the patriot act is, by definition, patriotic.

The Patriot act allows the government to spy on it's own citizens without a warrant, something which detracts from the goodness of America. A person who fights that which detracts from America, by your definition, is a Patriot. A person or element which detracts from the the goodness of America - wouldn't be a patriot.

edit:

Firstly; it only invades your privacy if you have things to hide

oh sorry i jumped in late, didn't realize you were fucking retarded before taking you seriously

[Drex]

Apparently, if a SWAT team invades your home, breaks a bunch of your shit, shoots your dog, detains you for a few days (or sends you to gitmo for however long they like), and then eventually finds you innocent and releases you, they haven't invaded your privacy. Good to know!

[Militant]

It's not just the fact that the body scanners invade your privacy, or that the people who are looking at them want to see the images. It's about conditioning American's to give up rights in order to be "safe." Body scanners aren't keeping us safe, and numerous studies have been done that show we aren't any safer at the airports now then we were. False flag terror and the creation of "enemies" for a country to hate has been something that's existed since the earliest Nations. Anyone in government knows that a scared population is the easiest to control. Video cameras are popping up every where, the government can now spy on you, tap your phone, enter your home, and detain you without charges indefinitely, as long as they'd like. It's not about hiding anything. It's about the constitutional rights that you have as an American citizen. Then end of posse-comitatus, the body scanners, the patriot act, rfid chips, etc. Call it tinfoil hat stuff if you want, and I'm not even suggesting that all of this stuff is related to each other, I'm just saying each and every one of those things violates what this country is supposed to be about.

[archibaldcrane]

the government can now spy on you, tap your phone, enter your home, and detain you without charges indefinitely, as long as they'd like.

to be fair it's pretty exceptional to be classified as an "enemy combatant" as a U.S. citizen.

[quannum]

to be fair it's pretty exceptional to be classified as an "enemy combatant" as a U.S. citizen.

to be fair, michelle bachmann

[Kuya]

oh sorry i jumped in late, didn't realize you were fucking retarded before taking you seriously

Dude, i got this

[Militant]

to be fair it's pretty exceptional to be classified as an "enemy combatant" as a U.S. citizen.

Right now it is. But what if the OWS movement, and civil unrest start mounting? They have a perfect loop-hole to jail all who oppose in grand totalitarian fashion.