Judge William Adams beats daughter for using the internet.

[hey]

But does spanking work on the kids that it will have an effect on? Absolutely.

I never said otherwise. In fact, i said exactly that, one post ago.

[Day]

I'm sure many of those studies do exist, but how do they go about proving that it is never effective when it is done within reason. How does a study prove that I would have come out a better person had I not been spanked, or disciplined in some other way. (Which I was, I was grounded and such as I got older, phone, games taken away etc...) How do these studies draw the line between rational spanking and beatings? I can't be assed to sift through all those fucking variables. Hey is so adamant that I could have been raised better had my parents not spanked me, I don't think it's too much to ask for just one piece of evidence to prove this since he's such an expert.

I took psych and child psych in college btw, I know about positive vs negative reinforcement. I don't feel scarred, do you feel scarred? There are MANY of us who were disciplined via spankings that feel like we came out pretty fucking awesome...

I gotta go to fucking bed.

inb4 3-4 word retort from hey.

[Kuishen]

I never said otherwise. In fact, i said exactly that, one post ago.

You posted that as I was writing up my post and that's a fairly big change of tune from a couple of pages ago.

[Yugl]

Assuming you want to meet his challenge, you have two ways of doing this.

1. Show a study that directly contradicts his premise (Physical punishment makes people a better person) and force submission via reasoning to the best explanation.

2. Ask him to explain in detail why he believes the physical punishment made him a better person. If you can get hold of these premises, you can either attack the truth of the premise (And make the argument invalid) or show that the premises, in conjunction with the conclusion, lead to a contradiction.

I say ask because there are multiple ways to construe the argument and assuming the argument may just lead to a battle of evading commitment to a particular set of premises. For example:

1. If an event happens to a person, then the person's character changes
2. If the person's character changes, then they are better or worse than before, but not both
3. Thus, if an event happens to a person, then they are better or worse than before, but not both
4. Physical punishment is an event that happens
5. Thus, if physical punishment happens, then they are better or worse than before, but not both
6. Physical punishment happened
7. Thus, they are better or worse than before, but not both
8. They are not worse than before
9. Therefore, they are better

Obviously a flawed example per se, but the point is clear that you can attack this in many ways (particularly, 1 and 2 would be best). However, if these are not the premise that the opposition holds, then you are wasting your time.

[hey]

but how do they go about proving that it is never effective when it is done within reason.

They don't. Because as i've said, it can be effective. That isn't the issue. It doesn't fucking matter if it is effective. Killing someone is 100% effective at stopping an unwanted behavior, does that mean we should kill a child for crying in the store? Just because something works does not mean it is appropriate.

I don't feel scarred, do you feel scarred?

That's great. I'm glad you didn't suffer at the hands of your parents.

And no, i don't feel scarred. I was hit occasionally as a small child, however by the time i was 4-5, by mom was studying psychology, so naturally that stopped around then. Considering my mom was 18 when she had her first kid (and 20 when she had me), she actually did a pretty damn good job raising us.

There are MANY of us who were disciplined via spankings that feel like we came out pretty fucking awesome...

And...? No one has ever claimed that spanking a child will turn them into a blood thirsty maniac hell bent on destroying the world.

You posted that as I was writing up my post and that's a fairly big change of tune from a couple of pages ago.

When did i say physical punishment cannot ever be effective?

[Day]

Glad you finally agree with me now.

[hey]

Glad you finally agree with me now.

Except i don't. In fact, i think spanking of any kind should be illegal.

[Chun Liroy]

They don't. Because as i've said, it can be effective. That isn't the issue. It doesn't fucking matter if it is effective. Killing someone is 100% effective at stopping an unwanted behavior, does that mean we should kill a child for crying in the store? Just because something works does not mean it is appropriate.

Did you just equate spanking as punishment to killing a child in terms of appropriateness.

Fucking lol.

Spanking of any kind should be illegal?

Hey isn't into BDSM clearly.

[Yugl]

Did you just equate spanking as punishment to killing a child in terms of appropriateness.

Fucking lol.

Spanking of any kind should be illegal?

Hey isn't into BDSM clearly.

Holyshit, how did you not get the point of that? It's to show that effectiveness is not the sole grounds for adoption.

[Day]

Except i don't. In fact, i think spanking of any kind should be illegal.

Too bad you don't make the laws, dang.

[Day]

Holyshit, how did you not get the point of that? It's to show that effectiveness is not the sole grounds for adoption.

Actually leroy is right, when worded like that, to the reader he is equating murder with spanking in an attempt to make a point. This analogy would work if spanking caused instant death or anything of the sort. His point could be much better made by simply presenting one piece of actual data.

[Churchill]

And so the better idea is to...turn around while he still swings at you anyway?

The entire point, in his mind, is to have submission. He is the parent, you do what he says, until the age of 18 / while you're living under his roof. The fact that you do something that makes him rage that much and then try to cheat your way out of the suitable (in his mind) punishment only angers him further, making him feel like he needs to teach you even more of a lesson, since you clearly do not get what he is saying.

You bend over, you take that beating and you do not do it again (or don't get caught again). That's what he wants, either do exactly that or outsmart him.

Is that the right way to parent? The best way to parent? I'd go with no fairly clearly, but I see his thought process for it. And it is a good lesson to learn, because there are situations for just about anyone where the absolute best response is to figuratively bend over and take it.

That may be the dumbest thing I've read in the entire thread.

It's actually one of the smarter things in the entire thread.

Also, Hey is wrong.

[Ezek]

Regardless of it being right or wrong, this guy's career (both as a judge and a lawyer) is probably at an end by the time this is all over.

[Khamsin]

Can you imagine the beating his daughter got when she posted this? Regardless of how old she is now. I would not want to be her, after having just exposed him and ruining his career.

But, it needed to be done.

[Demosthenes]

Well that makes sense, thanks for explaining your position. You have to realize though that there are many of us who were spanked on a rational level, who feel it most likely did a lot of good... obviously it's a hard thing to prove, but I must say I was a wild ass child and those spanking were probably the most efficient way to not only calm my ass down but quickly teach me right from wrong. It's hard to read that someone thinks that a spanking and a severe beating coupled with extreme verbal abuse are the same thing, but I can see why you personally would feel that way.

I am feeling the fuck out of Day in this thread. Same boat. I was a terrible little shithead. I would do shit thinking I was too smart to get caught. I cannot imagine how much of a terrible adult I would be if not for those spankings. Bear in mind I am from an entirely different culture. English/Nigerian. Spankings and boarding school calmed me the fuck down.
Much like day, the asswhupping above, regardless of if it hurts or not is def physical, mental and verbal abuse.

[Cream Soda]

Maybe it was watching it w/o sound, but man after 11 pages, finally decided to watch it. Big overreaction, imo. Sure that may not be the preferred method of punishment for someone that age, but that's far from what I'd call a beating, lol.

Also, dat ass

[Rhinox]

It's actually one of the smarter things in the entire thread.

no

[Minions]

Meh. When I was younger I got spanked with belts, wooden spoons etc. I'd say it was pretty effective. Would I do it to my kids if I have some? Probably so. Kids these days are a bunch of pansies, growing up with brothers use to toughen you up... amazing how times have changed. Schools can't really discipline anyone anymore, if parents are not willing to do it then kids are going to grow up thinking they are above punishment/the law. A lot of them learn real fast when they get older that it is not the case.

[Outlaw]

CNN reports that Adams has been, "temporarily relieved of his duties".
The video of Dr. Drew someone was talking about is there also. Scroll down a little on the page.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/02/justic...ing/?hpt=hp_t2

[Demosthenes]

Don't spank your kids. Medicate them.