Conservation of gear

[Yugl]

Thought: Even though there are optimal sets for each spell/ability/TP set/WS set, there is reason to believe it is impossible to fulfill each of these. This is important because it impacts the gear selection people make. Since players cannot bypass slot limitations, it would be foolish to believe that optimization trumps pragmatic selection.

Question: What types of sacrifices are available and which are best to take?

Answer: It depends on the gear sets, the maneuvers available, and slot available

Initial concerns

• The number of slots available changes by class (EX: RNG, BST, and NIN probably use more slots on average)
• Depending on the class, going at the problem on a detailed basis might be beneficial for specific individuals (Tailored to what gear options are available to them and what they have), but that doesn't help as a paradigm for approaching the problem and giving general advise
• The "Individual-specific" method is also cumbersome

Remaining Discussion: Is it possible to formulate a paradigm for thinking about gear conservation without requiring an individual case-by-case method (Recognizing that sacrifices will be made by imposing an general method of thought [MOD])? How can this apply to differing classes?

[Francisco]

Not really sure what you're trying to do here - is this for multiple job characters, or just any given job... maximizing your 80 main slots?

There's no real answer to any of this, considering every job has different needs, gear overlaps (TP pieces working in WS set as well), roles and expectations.

Every serious melee should have a TP, WS and MDT set. PDT is nice too, but less important generally. After that, you have specialty gear like Chakra sets, maybe DRG Jump stuff...

I'd value WS gear over -MDT gear as a MNK, but wouldn't sacrifice a good -MDT ring for a 7 STR ring, when I already have a Rajas Ring with 5 STR (if it came down to that slot)... I try to keep gear + consumables at around 70 slots and leave 10 free for pops, drops and general use...

[grevenilvec75]

As SCH I prioritize my idle set(s) and my -enmity set since those are the ones which get the most use. After that It's nuke/helix sets, and cure potency set. Then a lower tier is stuff like enhancing/enfeebling/hmp gear. Lots of this I have muled out to make space for the other sets.


The latter category is one where I would prefer all of the space saving gear. A piece of gear that has hmp and enhancing for instance would get priority over a piece that is slightly better at one of those things, but does nothing for the other. For the important sets, I'm going to maximize no matter what, so hybrid pieces rarely find a place there (since there's almost always a dedicated piece thats better than a hybrid)

Just my opinion though, ymmv.

[Yugl]

@ Francisco: Any given class maximizing slots. To put the OP in a clearer fashion, the questions is whether it is possible to design a shorthand method for maximizing slots such that you can plan each set accordingly. I didn't make it clear in the OP, but the idea would be to make a paradigm for thinking about gear sets v inventory in the general sense and then breaking that down into individual classes. For example, on a general level, we might think of melees as necessitating a maximized TP and WS set. This would mean allocating a maximum of 29 slots from the get-go. On a more particular level, we might think of DRG as encompassing roughly 10-13 slots maximum for healing breath. I imagine that this discussion will first require people to somewhat "layout" what gear sets each classes uses, identify core sets that are pervasive across activities, and make the system somewhat hierarchical. The idea is not to end up with strict allocations of X inventory for XXX class, but instead, a more broad notion that says XXX class will typically wind up with X1-X2 for TP/WS/or w/e and generally have R1-R2 inventory available afterward.

Edit: Gren had the idea of what I meant if this post was confusing.

[Francisco]

Well, it depends how maximized you want to go with this exercise. In the case of a MNK who TPs in Rajas/Epona, I would put a Pyrosoul Ring fairly low on the "must carry" list, as it's only 2 STR vs the 1 inventory slot. It's certainly something to aim for, but it's probably not even in the top 40 or 50 of items a MNK should carry.

Starting off for MNK - you need a TP set, including weapon... so 14 slots to start off.

Secondly, weapon skill set. Assuming Victory Smite, you definitely want to swap head, hands, legs (those three are the biggest slots)... I'll leave this alone for now, because those three slots are the only ones I'd prioritize. I'll add in Temple Gloves if you want to Boost. Up to 18 slots.

Thirdly, MDT set: Avalon, Twilight Torque, Merman Ring, DT-5% back, 6% Dark (or 4% Dark + Merman Ear)... -25% MDT... 5-6 slots, 23-24 total

JA Macros, basics... Chakra Hands/Body, Dodge Feet, Focus Head, Counterstance feet... 5 slots 28-29 toal

That's basically "the foundation" for MNK... and after that, you get into the fine tuning of WS sets (maybe another 5 slots), maximizing chakra on top of hands/body (10 more slots)... PDT gear (body, head, a ring - rest overlaps with MDT), a staff and a club for blue procs, Hermes sandals... if you're feeling excessive, which I always am... eight slots for elemental sachets...

I don't macro MND to Chi Blast anymore; waste of space for negligible damage. Same with evasion. I don't have an evasion set, and have never thought, "damn, I wish I had an evasion set right now..." waste of space, I just toss on -DT/-PDT if I get terrored/stoned/whatever...

In short, MNK can "get by" on 28-30 slots... upwards of 48-50 if you want to be pretty maxed out (sans sachets and eva/chi gear)...

Currently using ~51 slots for gear personally, including a few sachets... also carrying around food, seals/crests, toolbags, shihei, meds and teleport items...

[Byrthnoth]

I guess I don't entirely get the premise for this thread. The only things common between jobs are going to be their TP/WS sets.

--General Sets--
TP Set (low Haste): Useful all the time, unless you've got a perfect bard.
TP Set (Marches): Not useful unless a Bard is around, but most of the gear pulls double duty as WS gear.
PDT Set: Not useful unless you're fighting a lot of monsters and evasion capped. Generally stays in my satchel.
MDT Set: Not useful unless you're fighting something that does magic damage. Stays in my satchel.
Evasion set (Tier 1): Not very useful doing old content.
Evasion set (Tier 2): Not useful at all when doing old content.
WS Set (Dancing Edge): Not useful in Abyssea.
WS Set (Evisceration/Rudra's): Always useful.
WS Set (Aeolian Edge): When it's useful, it's really useful. Takes up a ton of slots though. I keep it in satchel.

--Dancer Sets--
Waltz set: CHR has a very minimal impact on Waltz potency. Dump that first, and hang on to AF1 body/Roundel/Anwig forever.
Step Accuracy set: Almost never necessary. Maybe in Voidwatch or something.
Samba set: AF1 head is useful, AF3+2 pieces are something you're going to have anyway.
MAcc (Violent Flourish) set: AF2 body, Omega Ring, Balrahn's Ring, Nebula +1 gear, etc. I stop after Balrahn's ring and generally keep everything in satchel.
Fast Cast set: Not useful, really. M-beads for Ichi.
Reverse Flourish: Just AF3+2 hands and very useful.
Jig set: Useful, adds extra time to Spectral/Chocobo Jig for getting around.


We have 80 inventory now and I use about 65 pieces of gear when doing stuff like Dynamis. I also QM my mule, sooo... I have plenty of space. At the beginning of Salvage I'm typically running 73/74 slots filled due to my Aeolian Edge build, but I ditch it by the second floor.

[Alkimi]

I think any mage can now realistically get rid of hMP sets if they need the room. I don't think I've needed to heal MP in a hurry for years now.

Abyssea infini-MP, better gear (lots of auto-refresh) and temp items from VW have removed the need for it.

[Neisan]

My HMP set died at the 80 cap when it came to space, Full MND set has also taken a back seat.

Convert kit also got hit since I don't use it, or Rdm, enough to justify the space loss.

[Celebrindor]

Talking mage jobs here, as they by far are the heaviest sets in terms of number of pieces.

I carry my obis in my satchel, only pulling the one corresponding to the day/weather at hand into inventory. I'm anal though, and always carry the full compliment of staves.

hMP set...well at events I would say I almost never carry a full set- but sure as shit when I don't carry it, I find myself wanting it. As for solo work outside of Abyssea, it gets carried, especially on BLM. RDM I can get away (most times) without.

I'm foolish in one aspect...I carry nuking sets while on WHM and RDM. I feel that if I'm going to cast those spells I should be casting them effectively. Could I get rid of this, especially on WHM? Yeah. I'd put this pretty low. It may also be considered overkill to bring an enhancing set on BLM (for example, I carry Goetia feet AND igqira feet), but that's something that I almost refuse to give up. Every tic of phalanx is worth it in my book.

My MDT set is quick to be placed on the back burner, or at least several pieces of it. This is especially true on RDM, where space is at a premium.

All in all, I never sit below 75/80 on my mage jobs. I would love to reduce that to around 70...of course the moment I did I'm sure I would find more gear I "should" carry.

tl;dr- if you're not @80/80, there's always more you can maximize in my book.

[Nightfyre]

I think any mage can now realistically get rid of hMP sets if they need the room. I don't think I've needed to heal MP in a hurry for years now.

Abyssea infini-MP, better gear (lots of auto-refresh) and temp items from VW have removed the need for it.

Voidwatch procs can get fairly expensive for a BLM depending on your alliance's job distribution. Beyond that, I'd generally agree.

[Alkimi]

I'm foolish in one aspect...I carry nuking sets while on WHM and RDM. I feel that if I'm going to cast those spells I should be casting them effectively. Could I get rid of this, especially on WHM?

I always carry a nuking set on WHM. Throwing out 1000-1500 damage every minute with Holy II adds up on longer fights.

[Byrthnoth]

Voidwatch procs can get fairly expensive for a BLM depending on your alliance's job distribution. Beyond that, I'd generally agree.

If you're in a successful Voidwatch alliance with all the Temp Item periapts, you really don't need to worry about running out of MP. My shitty WHM mule still needs to care about HMP outside Abyssea, but only because I'm too lazy to get him the 3-4 MP/tick worth of refresh gear that would make it so he never has to rest on WHM/THF.

[NynJa]

but only because I'm too lazy to get him the 3-4 MP/tick worth of refresh gear that would make it so he never has to rest on WHM/THF.

The only one that would seem annoying would be a Refresh Pin...since you can get one in an hr, or take 30 hours.

Owleyes, Serpentes set, Bliaud+2, Moonshade = 5 right there.

[Byrthnoth]

Moonshade? Pfffttt... no way in hell I'm spamming X through all those CSs again. He's at 6/8 seals and 5/9 jewels for +2 body. He has Serpentes hands (of course) and I have a colorful for the boots. I'm going to buy the BLM gear required to complete the Brygid quest on both my characters at some point. I'm honestly most likely to try and get him a Refresh pin first, just because I like the idea of potentially improving my Dark Rings to 6/6.

When it comes down to it, though, I'd rather be farming something than dicking around doing that crap. In the long run, I don't think a few Refresh is going to really improve my efficiency to the point that it's worth giving up a week of Dynamis runs for it.

[NynJa]

I completely forgot about the refresh sub...but same thing, RNG bullshit, could take 1 try could take 200 -.-

I figure at some point SE may make a tiein that involves finishing WoTG, just like they did with Bahamut and RotZ, so I got it done when the level caps went up. I have yet to turn in my earrings :s

[Byrthnoth]

I didn't reactivate my mule until I was ~2/3 done the missions, so he got left out. Otherwise he'd totally have that earring. I'm done the Windurst and Sandy quest lines, I think, and something like 2/3 done the Bastok ones. I also suspect some kind of Apocalypse Nigh-esque quest will be in the pipeline for the future.

[Alistaire]

BLU has to be the worst when it comes to this. Sets:

Melee
CDC
STR+DEX spells
STR+VIT spells
Benthic Typhoon (AGI build)
MND/Curing spells
Stoneskin+ gear for /RDM (this is generally the first to go)
INT/MAB for nukes/Sanguine Blade
Auto-refresh/idle set
Fast Cast for shadows and a few other things
PDT/MDT set(s)

Heavy Strike would ideally also be its own set as well.

[Nightfyre]

Could easily add evasion, SID, niche nuke sets (CW), hMP, and variations on included sets as well.

If you're in a successful Voidwatch alliance with all the Temp Item periapts, you really don't need to worry about running out of MP. My shitty WHM mule still needs to care about HMP outside Abyssea, but only because I'm too lazy to get him the 3-4 MP/tick worth of refresh gear that would make it so he never has to rest on WHM/THF.

Agas and AM1/2 add up pretty fast even with a good refresh set. If you're getting full temps returned consistently then sure, you're probably ok, but I have run into issues a few times. I will say that I had no outside refresh, not sure if you're factoring that in.

[dannyl]

BLU has to be the worst when it comes to this. Sets:

Yes. I'm to the point where I really need to evaluate my entire inventory setup to see what I can make room for. And its not a case of using porter moogle and what not as I've taken advantage of that already. 80 inventory is simply not doing it anymore these days.

[Daruma]

Agreed on blu. Although I try to get away with sharing certain components of sets I still have: CW set, DEX based, STR based, MND/cure, Sang blade, pdf, eva, DD/haste/tp, ACC, and AGI set...and soon to be CDC. I usually hover around 73 or 74/80 99% of the time. Thank fucking god for that satchels or I wouldnt have room.