Ultimate Mahvel VS HAZBOYZ 3X? (as seen on WNF!)

[Sho]

Knee-jerk reaction much?

How does "Yea, about Wesker, we have other things in our plate so addressing balance issues by the end of the year will be hard to do (i.e. may not happen)" get interpreted as "HAY GUYS WE'RE NERFING EVERYTHING TOMORROW".

It's not a knee jerk reaction, I'm just angry.

Surely you realize, this has to be the stupidest fucking nerf to come, not even a month or two in. This is exactly what happened to original vanilla Sentinel, when everyone suddenly found out that he wasn't even a threat. I know X-Factor lvl 4 BS is a threat problem, but shit has to rock and evolve on it's on, instead of crying foul and wanting [severe] nerfs. Same to Phoenix. We only started seeing tons of legit Anti-Phoenix tech come out, 2 months before Ultimate, nullifying the need to nerf Phoenix at all. I know you remember those Good vs Evil matches that went down at Season's Beatings. I know you probably watch hi_im_nasty play his Skrull, and hopefully you saw his Anti-Phoenix tech (even if it was a gimmick kinda). The worst thing is that we all know bandwagoners and hipsters will jump to the very next big thing if Wesker's nerf is significant enough.

Yes, I'm the same Sho that would post a "FU Wesker" picture or topic in a hot minute in my abhorrence to him. Fuck Wesker.

Maybe I'm one of the only few that still has his mind in the era of MvC1/MvC2, where it was damn interesting to see a game constantly evolve every year. Example, I couldn't even say a damn thing in retort to Weltall, we both know what was up in MvC2's last year regardless. Or maybe I just wish the FGC was still as high class as it was 10 years ago, where everyone went to matches, deal with BS mechanics, figure out new technology as a community or simply give up playing that specific game.

[samalis]

lol@1:35

[Kaelan?]

Surely you realize, this has to be the stupidest fucking nerf to come, not even a month or two in.

What nerf? That's what I'm saying. Nitsuma just said that they're probably not going to even have time to start working on seeing if there's any problems in there, let alone figure out what to do about it. People are acting as if he specifically said "HAY GUYS! All of Wesker's moves now -87 on block. Also gun doesn't OTG anymore".

All he said is "yeah we've seen the Wesker stuff at NEC, but probably not going to do anything about it for now, cause we're busy trying to get other things into a patch before the end of the year".

People (and I say people because it's not just you, it's all over SRK atm) are having knee jerk reactions to seeing the words "Wesker" and "patch" in the same sentence without actually reading what the man said.

[Thulius]

It's not even like people need to figure Wesker out. He's always been common and he's still got the exact same weakness he always had; absolutely no control of the air space. With the air throw nerf in Ultimate that got even worse.

Any character with good air-air options and quick normals gives him tons of trouble, but a stupid amount of people are dropping characters like Magneto and Storm just because one touch doesn't lead into braindead 100% combos without the DHC glitch. He gets pretty retarded when level 2/3 xfactor come into play but that's what snapbacks are for.

If Capcom ends up nerfing him then whatever, at least it'll get people to stop crying. He's definitely not as much of a problem as vanilla Wolverine/Phoenix/Magneto were though.

[Bweigelt]

Yeah Wesker's popularity has a lot to do with him not being changed at all, while most of the other top tiers from vanilla have changed drastically and people are lazy. Capcom needs to give it time. Look at what they did with Sentinel, he was fine early in Vanilla people just needed time to figure him out. Instead they nerfed him so hard he became a character only useful for his assist and the fact that he could finish the DHC glitch. Like Sho said, if they nerf Wesker everyone will jump on the next thing that people deem "OP" like they always do.

[Kaelan?]

Instead they nerfed him so hard he became a character only useful for his assist and the fact that he could finish the DHC glitch.

And ridiculous exchange combos. Fuck his health, I want my TAC rocket punch combos back!

[Sho]

What nerf? That's what I'm saying. Nitsuma just said that they're probably not going to even have time to start working on seeing if there's any problems in there, let alone figure out what to do about it. People are acting as if he specifically said "HAY GUYS! All of Wesker's moves now -87 on block. Also gun doesn't OTG anymore".

All he said is "yeah we've seen the Wesker stuff at NEC, but probably not going to do anything about it for now, cause we're busy trying to get other things into a patch before the end of the year".

People (and I say people because it's not just you, it's all over SRK atm) are having knee jerk reactions to seeing the words "Wesker" and "patch" in the same sentence without actually reading what the man said.

I saw that he didn't mention specifically a nerf, but it's coming regardless if he took time to make light of it on his agenda. He could have simply said "At this time we feel Wesker is not a big problem" or something to that effect. Instead it's "A difficult problem... which is hard enough" which can be interpreted as "Yeah we see the problem with Wesker, but we got other shit to do right now too." It wasn't too hard to figure that out.

I'm with you Thul, but a ton of people aren't on that level of thinking or even care much past him being a current tier whore to figure it out. Characters Hawkeye, Mags, Dormmamu and V Joe body this dude for free for sure. Thank you for mentioning snapbacks too -- that's exactly what I was harping on Akiyama's ear on about two nights ago during NEC. People should also target easy hit confirm to 550~600k combo options as well.

Wolverine is still a huge threat as well, even after vanilla. Just no more best friends esque derp.

Viscant Rant:

Spoiler: show

Unfortunately we do know who Capcom is listening to, they've started balancing games towards lowest common denominator. This was not always the case. Characters like Fuerte and Blanka who never even reached mid-tier in SF4 repeatedly received asinine, non-sensical nerfs because these characters bothered online scrubs. It took Capcom 4 tries to realize that Blanka was a completely irrelevant character metagame wise and they (might have) fixed the probelm. Fuerte...well he's still waiting. All because online scrubs can't block tostadas or punish blanka balls.

This is the same reason characters like Doom and Spencer were buffed overall despite being already strong characters in tournament. This is why Viper was mostly left alone despite possibly being the best character in vanilla. This is why Zero was buffed despite being the best point character in vanilla. Capcom is not balancing with top level play in mind. They don't care all that much about it to be honest. As long as it's playable they're fine. Once you realize this, their decisions make much more sense.


On topic of Wesker, the only area he's outperforming expectations is in the anchor position. This is largely because with Phoenix completely (so people believe now, which is wrong but whatever) taken out of the metagame, the biggest obstacle to anchoring Wesker is removed. People are currently putting characters like Doom, Sentinel, Hawkeye in the anchor position and are wondering why Wesker is running a train on them. It's not much of a surprise to me. When you put him up against characters he's strong against in a situation where x-factor use is not only allowed but encouraged, he's going to win. Probably 8/10. Surprise!

People will figure it out. It's the biggest reason that Sentinel was dominating early in vanilla. People played low tier characters because they didn't know any better, Sentinel stepped on them. Surprise! People will play a little more Phoenix, start anchoring Strider, X-23 or Vergil, etc. and Wesker use in the anchor hole will decline sharply.

Unfortunately given how much the lowest common denominator is whining, Wesker will likely be nerfed and completely removed from the metagame which is a shame. That is this era of gaming in a nutshell. If you can't use your brain to figure it out, use your vocal chords to cry loud enough until someone listens.

--Jay Snyder
[email protected]

Just at a loss I guess. Getting much better at this game and I just wanted legit challenges with Wesker players once I came out of the Hyperbolic. Whatever, what can you do...

[Bweigelt]

Viscant is right on the money but the fact of the matter is Capcom is in a tough spot. The worst thing for the FGC and Esports in general and is the fact that it is extremely easy for everyone to voice their opinion to the developers. It leads to people who are terrible at the game bitching non stop about balance because they can't win. That leads to multiple patches in a short time frame which just fucks up the game even more. People see something difficult to deal with and they don't even bother to try and figure out how to beat it they just bitch on the forums and wait for that shit to be nerfed. It's an epidemic among all competitive games in all genre's right now thought FGC seems to be hit the hardest by it. Really the only game I can think of that does a great job of strictly balancing the game for competitive play is DOTA and it has it's own set of issues to overcome because of it.

[Xno Kappa]

Posting a rant by Viscant of all people isn't really helping the argument on why not to nerf OP characters.

[Xno Kappa]

And what the hell is with this fallacy that only scrubs complain about OP characters? JWong is on record saying he doesn't respect Phoenix players, they need her to win, and she was the cheapest character in the game by far in vanilla. Yipes and a few others flat out said this game is ASS when it was always Wesker vs Wesker this past weekend with 27 out of 32 teams having him.

[Weltall]

Viscant...lol....kid was so awful at MvC2.

[lathia]

What team did Viscant rock in vanilla?

[Elcura]

Wesker, Haggar, Phoenix.

[Bweigelt]

Posting a rant by Viscant of all people isn't really helping the argument on why not to nerf OP characters.

Why is Viscant not allowed to comment on balance while playing Phoenix while Wong who played Wolverine, and played Chun in 3S is? Just because he played Phoenix doesn't make his point any less valid.

[Weltall]

The better player wins 90%+ of the time in 3S; the better player is a coin toss in Marvel 3. Game is retarded.

[Bweigelt]

And yet we see the same people finishing at the top over and over again. Something doesn't compute there.

[Callisto]

. . .

Trying to learn vanilla a bit still, was doing Ryu's trials and it took me 5 minutes to do his third trial, tatsu > dp.

























I kept pressing A for low kick.

[Druin]

Anyone wanna go some rounds on ps3? Psn is zeros7575

[Deejay]

And yet we see the same people finishing at the top over and over again. Something doesn't compute there.

Did you know who Flocker was before he won Season's Beatings? Which is the biggest Marvel tournament outside of Evo...

I'll say this until I'm blue in the face. Marvel is about playing broken characters and doing broken things. At intermeddiate play and above, characters practically play themselves. The game will never be balanced to a point where skill will always win out in a 3 game set. There's too many random factors such as happy birthdays, x-factor 100% kills, weird as all hell hit stun deterioration, and random hit box detection that causes so many variable outcomes.

Combofiend won like 3 SoCal tournaments and didn't even make top 16 at the CC tournament. Yipes won the CC tournament easily and didnt get top 16 at NEC. Shit like that happens all of the time in Marvel.

[Kaelan?]

Sure, I'll start a BG lobby