Level Cap Increase (11/17/2011)

[Kyte]

Speaking of that - Ninja better get the best 2 hour ever because Ninja's 2 hour is arguably the worse (and yes I played BST too. NIN was even worse than BST) since the forever. Okay in terms of usability it probably gets a lot more use than some other 2 hours (yes I know a free warp every 2 hours was kind of good guys but all it did was s) but in terms of serious stuff like BCNMs or whatever NIN's 2 hour was useless.

It removes weakness- making it arguably one of the most powerful 2 hours.

As for the SMN debate - I seriously think they should have gave SMN Cure spells from the very beginning. (Heck they should do it now. Better late than never. Give SMN Cure I-IV and give them some -na spells + Curaga.)

For most of FFXI's life, SMN was just a WHM but with lower level Cure spells. Since I haven't really played since level cap was raised to 85, I don't know what SMN are doing nowadays but SE did screw up with SMN in the sense that an easy "fix" to SMN was just giving them Cure spells. Yes they could have revamp SMN all together but they didn't, hence the "easy fix" being just give them Cure spells if SE is too lazy to revamp SMN.

You do remember that there are subjobs in this game, right?

[NynJa]

If smn gets native cure spells, they can sub war and melee like a boss, duh.

[Damane]

Speaking of that - Ninja better get the best 2 hour ever because Ninja's 2 hour is arguably the worse (and yes I played BST too. NIN was even worse than BST) since the forever. Okay in terms of usability it probably gets a lot more use than some other 2 hours (yes I know a free warp every 2 hours was kind of good guys but all it did was s) but in terms of serious stuff like BCNMs or whatever NIN's 2 hour was useless.

I stoped reading here, because frankly a 2 hour that lets you raise up unweakened, is sooooooo totally useless when you are weakened and want to get unweak as quick as you can.

[ronin sparthos]

People still care about 2hours? Useful JAs are far more interesting than a new sparkly ability you can use once every 2hours.

Jobs like NIN would be well to receive more JAs of use rather than more tweaks to Mijin Gakure.

[Alkar]

While we are at it, why does anyone need new weaponskills. Or for that matter, new weapons? Or new gear? Or new NMs? In fact, why bother raising the level cap at all; we should all be happy as level 1s running around in starter gear.

What's that? "Progress?" That doesn't belong in FFXI!

Exactly. Thank god someone is actually using their brain in here.
FFXI has always adopted tiers for anything. Blood pacts work in a similar way except we get completely new names instead of Claw, Claw II, etc.
Every single job has evolved in this sense: WHM getting new cure tiers, BLM getting higher nuke tiers, melees get new WS (including Empyrean), everyone gets gear, weapons, etc.
I'm not arguing that there aren't other jobs that need fixes (see PUP and the overhaul they're getting next patch) but sitting there saying that Summoners shouldn't feel offended that no new damage option has been added and we've been waiting for more than 1 year for the 99 cap hoping that it would bring something else and this is what we get.
I have no faith in Cait Sith/ Atomos adding anything good honestly. Atomos is going to be 2hr only and if they're going to add the ability I'm thinking about it'll be either useless or extremely situational... Cait Sith has been compared by the devs to Carbuncle which is the weakest avatar we have.
Our terrestrial avatars got new situational nukes right away with the 80 cap, now it's time to give something new to the 6 elemental ones.
And on the Bahamut argument: If BLMs get to shoot Meteors from the sky, SMNs should be able to summon the Wyrmking even if only as a 2hr ability.
No one is asking for instant death attacks or summon cutscenes, it's all about giving every job a fair treatment when it comes to progression. Other pet jobs either get new nukes (PUP) or at least 4-5 pets each upgrade.
I have all at 90 btw and I'm really happy about the adjustments they've gotten and they're going to get. Summoner is simply my favorite and has always been and it's really sad that we're getting treated as a B class pet job simply because they promised us 2 new pets in the distant future.

[Forte]

Exactly. Thank god someone is actually using their brain in here.
FFXI has always adopted tiers for anything. Blood pacts work in a similar way except we get completely new names instead of Claw, Claw II, etc.
Every single job has evolved in this sense: WHM getting new cure tiers, BLM getting higher nuke tiers, melees get new WS (including Empyrean), everyone gets gear, weapons, etc.
I'm not arguing that there aren't other jobs that need fixes (see PUP and the overhaul they're getting next patch) but sitting there saying that Summoners shouldn't feel offended that no new damage option has been added and we've been waiting for more than 1 year for the 99 cap hoping that it would bring something else and this is what we get.
I have no faith in Cait Sith/ Atomos adding anything good honestly. Atomos is going to be 2hr only and if they're going to add the ability I'm thinking about it'll be either useless or extremely situational... Cait Sith has been compared by the devs to Carbuncle which is the weakest avatar we have.
Our terrestrial avatars got new situational nukes right away with the 80 cap, now it's time to give something new to the 6 elemental ones.
And on the Bahamut argument: If BLMs get to shoot Meteors from the sky, SMNs should be able to summon the Wyrmking even if only as a 2hr ability.
No one is asking for instant death attacks or summon cutscenes, it's all about giving every job a fair treatment when it comes to progression. Other pet jobs either get new nukes (PUP) or at least 4-5 pets each upgrade.
I have all at 90 btw and I'm really happy about the adjustments they've gotten and they're going to get. Summoner is simply my favorite and has always been and it's really sad that we're getting treated as a B class pet job simply because they promised us 2 new pets in the distant future.

Stop making sense.

I'm actually thinking about getting on board with the Bahamut thing, if only because other jobs are getting their "omgwtfcutscene" spells and abilities.

[Septimus]

Stop making sense.

I'm actually thinking about getting on board with the Bahamut thing, if only because other jobs are getting their "omgwtfcutscene" spells and abilities.

Technically SMN does have a "omgwtfcutscene" ability with Zantetsuken. The problem is that it just isn't very good/useful.

OK, I will admit that I love to "Hamburger Time" mobs when XPing on SMN in Abyssea when there are tons of recovery chests, but beyond that it isn't very hot.

[orson]

I stoped reading here, because frankly a 2 hour that lets you raise up unweakened, is sooooooo totally useless when you are weakened and want to get unweak as quick as you can.

"But but it doesn't do enough damage during a zerg... Waaah..."
Then you hear all the Rngs complaining about EES not having any utility. You'll never please those whiny Ninjas until Mijin Gakure makes a perfect clone of you that takes all aggro, makes you go invisible + disengage, heals you to full, and when the clone dies it blows up for massive damage.

[Crab_Cake]

It removes weakness- making it arguably one of the most powerful 2 hours.



You do remember that there are subjobs in this game, right?

What I mean is that for most of FFXI, SMN was a weaker version of WHM.

For most of FFXI, SMN had no Cure IV (Cure III only with sub). While it is now "fixed" (sort of) what I meant to say in that post is they should have just did it from the beginning or as soon as they noticed SMN healing (similar to how NIN wasn't meant to "tank" but then when they noticed it, they helped NIN tank).

Also you can't go SMN/SCH and obtain Cure IV (it's 55 for SCH).

I stoped reading here, because frankly a 2 hour that lets you raise up unweakened, is sooooooo totally useless when you are weakened and want to get unweak as quick as you can.

Yeah that's good and all except... PLD's 2 hour prevents you from getting killed in the first place.

Edit - Okay yes Mijin Gakure is useful now (after they buffed it to removed weakness) but I'm still bitter about being useless against Snoll Tzar during the old days of people having only 1-2 jobs leveled up okay >.>? (I only had NIN and BST then... I couldn't even keep hate as NIN/DRK + TP wing + Blade: Jin >.>. [Also there was no THF])

tl;dr SE should make up by giving SMN Cure + Curaga spells and NIN <insert broken 2 hour>.

I do know a lot of this is pointless talk since the issues are "fixed" (SMN can now sub WHM to get Cure IV and be almost on par with SCH and RDM. NIN's 2 hour is irrelevant because the days of CoP and NIN being useless against Snoll Tzar are over) but point is they should at least acknowledge the issue in the past by "fixing it" now (better late than never).

[Kaisha]

tl;dr SE should make up by giving SMN Cure + Curaga spells

I'd rather they make the spirits not fucking useless. A controllable Light Spirit and ditching perp cost on them would fix the need for /WHM.

[orson]

Yeah that's good and all except... PLD's 2 hour prevents you from getting killed in the first place.

Now I'm sure in situations where you accidentally wipe then need to remove weakness, that's good and useful (you get raised, then mijin gakure, then get raised again, then no weakness!). However NIN's 2 hour is still kind of useless in BCs or <insert situations where you wouldn't want to die in the first place>.

Also (again) for most of FFXI's life NIN's 2 hour was useless in "important stuff" (they only buffed NIN's 2 hour in 2010 right?).

Pld's 2hr is pretty useless if you're a halfway competent Pld with a halfway competent healer. Every single 2hr in the game is extremely situational and only really useful if your group screwed up or you're zerging something. That's really where the whining about 2hrs began mostly. If it wasn't for the Snoll fight in CoP most people wouldn't have even noticed. After that with stuff like Bahamut v2 people were all butthurt over the fact their favorite job wasn't useful.

[Toth]

Honestly, SMNs shouldn't really complain that much. We have received two very potent debuffs (that actually stick on high end mobs), an aoe stun, a mazurka buff, and a very powerful Erase-ga. Coupled with the fact that the 70 and 75s BP get stronger with your level and we have a lot more gear to make them more powerful, our overall damage has greatly improved since 75. The only thing I realllly want is that BP shortening ability they have hinted at because it could help us be more efficient in zergs or quicker fights.

[Septimus]

Honestly, SMNs shouldn't really complain that much. We have received two very potent debuffs (that actually stick on high end mobs), an aoe stun, a mazurka buff, and a very powerful Erase-ga. Coupled with the fact that the 70 and 75s BP get stronger with your level and we have a lot more gear to make them more powerful, our overall damage has greatly improved since 75. The only thing I realllly want is that BP shortening ability they have hinted at because it could help us be more efficient in zergs or quicker fights.

The problem with saying that the 70 and 75 BPs get stronger as you level is that the same thing can be said about weaponskills and therefor can be applied to every job. "Slice is stronger at level 95 than it was at level 1 so Dark Knights don't need any weapon skills."

While I do agree that SMN is in a much, much, MUCH better place at 95 than it was at 75, it doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement. For example, Titan and Levithan need better damage blood pacts, this is a painful lesson that I learned while doing the Earth and Water perp staves. "But Septimus," no doubtably someone is about to say, "Spinning Dive is a very accurate Blood Pact." To which I would retort, "you can say that all you want, I saw way too many of them miss on EP mobs when leveling up the water staff." Same goes for that asshole Titan who couldn't Mountain Buster a bee if his life depended on it. (I had to use the 75 Merit Blood Pact because their BP accuracy was so shitty on easy prey mobs.)

Part of the problem is that this game's elemental magic system is painfully stupid, when a mob is "weak" to an element, most of the time it means that it has a low chance of resisting the spell as opposed to taking extra damage. Having all of the level 75 merit blood pacts would all be a lot more useful if you could target for extra damage, but that is besides the point. It is great that we can Predator Claws and Heavenly Strike, but it would be nice if avatar choice were more important because of their Rages.

[Spira]

Lol right now I'm just waiting for an indignant 2006 DRG to join the conversation about 2hrs.

Honestly SMN doesn't need to change its 2HR at all. Astral flow is already a multifaceted JA that can be used in so many situations. But the job as a whole could do with some improving.

Like some of the other SMN out there, I'd like to see SMN get the flexibility to increase the frequency of BP damage to be zerg friendly. Damage amount, given the rate/frequency/consistency is scaling fine for the most part. New BPs would come in handy, of course.

I think the easiest fix for SMN would simply be a JA running on like 5 charges that resets BP timers.
If SMN could do 6 rage BPs in a row I think that would be good enough for most SMNs to be more zerg-friendly and would make MP the only limiter when necessity to push damage out arises.

[Kyte]

"But Septimus," no doubtably someone is about to say, "Spinning Dive is a very accurate Blood Pact." To which I would retort, "you can say that all you want, I saw way too many of them miss on EP mobs when leveling up the water staff." Same goes for that asshole Titan who couldn't Mountain Buster a bee if his life depended on it. (I had to use the 75 Merit Blood Pact because their BP accuracy was so shitty on easy prey mobs.)

Going to take the bait and say "By shitty, do you mean capped at 95%?"

[ronin sparthos]

Still confused as to why BST was given a Toad "mascot" instead of you know.. a 4th usable pet functional for level 99 content.

Not giving NA players the Ruszor/Scorpion they asked for and wasting dev time on a mascot just seems like a slap across the face.

[Charismatic]

Still confused as to why BST was given a Toad "mascot" instead of you know.. a 4th usable pet functional for level 99 content.

Not giving NA players the Ruszor/Scorpion they asked for and wasting dev time on a mascot just seems like a slap across the face.

haha, he's not japanese and he thinks his opinion matters!

[Byrthnoth]

Yo dawgs, I herd SMN was reel cule!

Why not just expand Avatar's Favor to give the Summoner the spell access of the currently summoned Spirit? Problem solved. Not competitive with WHM or BLM, but still more useful than it was.

[NynJa]

Still confused as to why BST was given a Toad "mascot" instead of you know.. a 4th usable pet functional for level 99 content.

Not giving NA players the Ruszor/Scorpion they asked for and wasting dev time on a mascot just seems like a slap across the face.

a pet who you sacrifice having JA's to in exchange for faster attack speed, better accuracy and evasion, and a high magic evasion? I'm sure there might be situational uses...who knows what SE has in store?

[Tachi]

The problem with saying that the 70 and 75 BPs get stronger as you level is that the same thing can be said about weaponskills and therefor can be applied to every job. "Slice is stronger at level 95 than it was at level 1 so Dark Knights don't need any weapon skills."

Level 75, a merit BP 5/5 power ranged between Aero IV and Fire IV. Now with the 95 cap, AF3 and pet gear it's more between Fire V and Blizzard V (including magian staff). I can't really explain why since even with TP bonus +50, BP DMG+10% and the little of Pet: MAB gear we have, the difference should not be that huge.