[dev1206] Class Reforms & Action Lists

[Niiro]

They're not going to introduce classic jobs and make them function in a way they're not meant to, not now.

Nothing to do with the argument at large, but did you miss everything about PGL/MNK?

It's clear they're willing to deviate from tradition quite a bit (and I'm fine with that).

Spoiler: show

I hope BLU is introduced as a pet class. Why? Because fuck you that's why.

[Corrderio]

You mean classes that you would ordinarily have been fine with if they had just been named differently?

I'd love to see how many people would QQ about classes if they had traditional names. Shame Tanaka butchered the class system and it got a bad rep. I'd take a modified class system over a job system any day.

[plue]

I think the largest complaints are stemming from the fact that they initially put in a system, people go used to it and leveled jobs they could affeliate with. Then large parts of the system were turned around, which combines with a large lack of concrete information, and frustrates players.

Hopefully they make the classes a lot more diverse and fun to play, but who knows.

[Spider-Dan]

It will be interesting to see how exactly the restrictions and traits alter the Jobs as opposed to Classes. I find it hard to believe that the Jobs will function as direct upgrades especially since we don't know what actions are restricted from each system. Can MNK use all PGL's abilities? Will MNK obtain some actions from the second class it derives from?

At the very least, jobs can use "exclusive" abilities from their respective class:

1) MNK Abl. 4 says "Cannot be used simultaneously with PGL Ability 5 or PGL Ability 6." Both PGL Abl. 5 and PGL Abl. 6 are PGL exclusive. It would be redundant to state that MNK cannot "simultaneously" use an ability that they have no access to in the first place.

2) WS combo Block -> GLA WS 9 -> PLD WS 10. Both of those WS are exclusive, so at the very minimum, PLD will have to be able to use PLD-exclusive WS.

3) Magic combo THM Mag. 8 -> THM Mag. 9 -> BLM Mag. 1. Both THM Mag. 9 and BLM Mag. 1 are exclusive, so at the very minimum, BLM will have to be able to use THM-exclusive magic.

[Amastacia]

Curious to see how it will play out, do like the class diversity.

I am somewhat worried that GLA/PLD will remain underpowered, or that the current XP system will leave them at a disadvantage, as it does seem that their forte will revolve around single target tanking, with less AoE tanking ability and DD ability than MRD/WAR.

[Alkar]

Nothing to do with the argument at large, but did you miss everything about PGL/MNK?

It's clear they're willing to deviate from tradition quite a bit (and I'm fine with that).

Spoiler: show

I hope BLU is introduced as a pet class. Why? Because fuck you that's why.

Monk still plays like a Monk. A Blue Mage using the forces of nature instead of monster skills isn't a Blue Mage. The defining trait of a Monk is using his fists to deal damage, Blue Mage is more defined as a job.

[solracht]

Whoosh?

.

[LD]

By itself, it doesn't bother me that PGL/MNK get's a couple of funky elemental stances (that's how the elemental point allocation was supposed to work in the first place). As long as SE gets the math right, it should be fine. I agree, however, that a principally physical class getting a lot of magic focus is weird & counter-intuitive and needing MP to kick makes no real sense. What worries me most is if these stances are so powerful they require a perpetuation cost, what happens when a PGL/MNK runs out of MP? How reliable will MP recovery be? Is it a part of resource management put in place to make it more interesting? If so, why are most of the MP recovery abilities from other classes? Why is the only native MP recovery a proc on a WS? This is all so early, I'm not really super concerned about it, but it is weird.

[Hyan]

It seems Water is included, but was not in the list for some reason or another. It's a CNJ element.

[Corrderio]

It seems Water is included, but was not in the list for some reason or another. It's a CNJ element.

Hopefully the same for THM and Sacrifice.

[Alkar]

Hopefully the same for THM and Sacrifice.

With Regen being added to WHM I wouldn't get my hopes up.
I don't really mind tbh, what does bother me is that CNJ and THM each have 3 elements and BLM is supposed to have all 6 according to their description. Either they missed something, there's a cap increase on the way or the description is simply wrong.
Obviously Conjurer losing nukes was a bad idea but Thaumaturges can live without Sacrifice. I'm just worried about the upcoming months without jobs and how it'll affect battles and such.

[Hyan]

Conjurer didn't need all those nukes... Only lore is messed up.

[Corrderio]

With Regen being added to WHM I wouldn't get my hopes up.
I don't really mind tbh, what does bother me is that CNJ and THM each have 3 elements and BLM is supposed to have all 6 according to their description. Either they missed something, there's a cap increase on the way or the description is simply wrong.
Obviously Conjurer losing nukes was a bad idea but Thaumaturges can live without Sacrifice. I'm just worried about the upcoming months without jobs and how it'll affect battles and such.

Maybe Regen will be more potent? Either way I hope to god nukes don't suck after this update. I'd love to try BLM now since I don't need to put up with gear swap bullshit like in XI.

As for nukes, since you need to be 30 THM and 15 CON to unlock BLM (According to Yoshida's concept) maybe once you're on Black Mage you'll learn them?

[Jeryhn]

Conjurer changes make sense given the emphasis on natural elementals, which are generally represented by Wind/Water/Earth (especially the first Conjurer quest NM). Willing to bet Water being omitted is simply a typo or accidental non-inclusion. Thaumaturge/Black Mage having access over the more "destructive" elements of Fire, Ice and Lightning makes some sense given their connotations with darkness/destruction. Seems to me that Thaumaturge will get the short end of the lore stick compared to Conjurer solely based off of the fact that THM was originally designed to be some sort of light vs. darkness (polarities) mage as opposed to Conjurer's complete set of elements - Conjurer's lore is still somewhat salvageable.

Don't understand why SE didn't release the preliminary names for these abilities is same way they did Merton/Kaustra for FFXI. Especially the ice-related spells for THM/BLM, it seems like they either omitted regular ice spells in favor of spells that provide ice damage + enfeebling effects in comparison to the basic fire and lightning spells. Something tells me these lists are not complete in general.

[Hyan]

Well, isn't astral and umbral basically three elements mixed together?

[Corrderio]

Confirmed CON will control water, but there are no water-based attack spells. Wut? Also, no enfeebles til 2.0.

There aren't any water-based attack spells, but conjurers do control water-based spells. The break down of elements are as follows:
CNJ: Water/Wind/Earth
THM: Fire/Ice/Lightning

Also, there are no paralyze/poison/silence/absorb/slow and there aren't any plans to implement them before the launch of version 2.0. However, as we move forward, if it becomes absolutely necessary to utilize them, we will look into it.

SOURCE: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post453982

[Vuitton]

I wonder why they felt the need to remove the enfeebles.

[Corrderio]

I don't get that either. Sure there aren't extreme cases like in XI but debuffs still had some uses.

[TacoTaru]

The speculation on the official forums (am I really citing that?) is that cures are water based.

[Waraji]

For the most part, judging by the stat test threads, they seemed mostly lack luster. That and they just made add them to the new classes their are cooking up. I would much rather them work on them, and release them when they are "necessary" than keep them now.