Transgendered Changing Rooms

[archibaldcrane]

Interesting. You feel that it's okay for some people to be forced to remove their clothing in front of some people they are not comfortable with seeing them do this, but don't want to force others. And I'm the asshole?

Yes, if you are trying to make the lives of transgendered people EVEN HARDER THAN THEY ALREADY HAVE IT because they're transgendered/don't have the genitalia you'd like, you're the asshole.

[Tricen]

How is it any different than really fat people? I don't want to see nastiness and rolls as it makes me feel uncomfortable. So I wouldn't look and stop being a creeper and staring at people and change and leave.

[Pirian]

Interesting. You feel that it's okay for some people to be forced to remove their clothing in front of some people they are not comfortable with seeing them do this, but don't want to force others. And I'm the asshole?

Nobody is forcing you. There are bathroom stalls if you are uncomfortable -- use them.

I don't like changing in front of black people because their noticeably larger penis makes me uncomfortable. We should have a separate changing room for blacks and whites (hell, lets gives Asians their own changing room too, those poor small-penis bastards) so I don't have to feel uncomfortable changing in front of them.

Yes, you are the asshole because you're discriminating someone based upon some innate part of them. Is it your fault? Not necessarily. Blame your upbringing and social surroundings, because that is more often the cause.

[aduidarnenye]

transgenders are saying they are x sex. You are saying they should not be able to be with people of that sex until their genitalia is the same because it makes you uncomfortable. So yes, you are the asshole

I never said they shouldn't be with people of that sex. There's no one stopping them from participating in the sport.

I said that women shouldn't be forced to change in front of people they are uncomfortable changing in front of. I also don't think pre-op transgendered women should be forced to change in front of people they're uncomfortable changing in front of.

In my particular conversation I offered the solution of a third changing room, or rooms, for people who aren't comfortable with changing in front of other people, but was instead told that I should be forced to change with the pre-op transgendered women because anything else lowers their status as less than human. Why do pre-op transgendered women have the need to see my naked body to feel human?

[Demosthenes11]

I never said they shouldn't be with people of that sex. There's no one stopping them from participating in the sport.

I said that women shouldn't be forced to change in front of people they are uncomfortable changing in front of. I also don't think pre-op transgendered women should be forced to change in front of people they're uncomfortable changing in front of.

In my particular conversation I offered the solution of a third changing room, or rooms, for people who aren't comfortable with changing in front of other people, but was instead told that I should be forced to change with the pre-op transgendered women because anything else lowers their status as less than human. Why do pre-op transgendered women have the need to see my naked body to feel human?

yep, I see no problem in having a changing room specifically for transgenders in a society that does not accept them in most cases. They would totally want to be seen going in and out of those.

[Nevex]

I've never interacted with a transgender person before, but should that happen I can't help but to think that the gender that matters is the one people were born as.
I just see the whole sex changing thing as a more extreme form of cross-dressing.

[Demosthenes11]

I've never interacted with a transgender person before, but should that happen I can't help but to think that the gender that matters is the one people were born as.
I just see the whole sex changing thing as a more extreme form of cross-dressing.

and that's because you are not educated on the subject. do some reading and educating

[aduidarnenye]

yep, I see no problem in having a changing room specifically for transgenders in a society that does not accept them in most cases. They would totally want to be seen going in and out of those.

No, I offered to use the third changing room (as I pointed out above), not put the pre-op transgendered individuals into it. I believed this to be an acceptable solution but was informed that I was treating pre-op transgendered women as subhuman and I should change in front of them so they feel like women.

[Pirian]

Why do pre-op transgendered women have the need to see my naked body to feel human?

Ohhh, so it finally comes out. You're being narcissistic. They, more than likely, don't want to see you naked any more than you want to see them naked. They simply want to use the "female" changing rooms because that is the sex they identify with.

edit so I don't double post:

I believed this to be an acceptable solution but was informed that I was treating pre-op transgendered women as subhuman and I should change in front of them so they feel like women.

That's because you are treating transgender women as subhuman.

[Cleverness]

Why not just have a separate locker room for gay men and gay women then, since some people might not want to get changed around a gay person of their gender?

Do you see the slippery slope that kind of thinking goes down?

[archibaldcrane]

No, I offered to use the third changing room (as I pointed out above), not put the pre-op transgendered individuals into it. I believed this to be an acceptable solution but was informed that I was treating pre-op transgendered women as subhuman and I should change in front of them so they feel like women.

You should suck it up and stop trying to make their lives even harder than they already are.

End of discussion.

[Demosthenes11]

No, I offered to use the third changing room (as I pointed out above), not put the pre-op transgendered individuals into it. I believed this to be an acceptable solution but was informed that I was treating pre-op transgendered women as subhuman and I should change in front of them so they feel like women.

"Men" "Women" "Those that don't want trannies to see them naked"

what the fuck does a third locker room mean if everyone can use it lol

[archibaldcrane]

I don't know why you're concerned with certain other women seeing you naked aduidarnenye - other women see you naked in women's locker rooms all the time.

[aduidarnenye]

Ohhh, so it finally comes out. You're being narcissistic. They, more than likely, don't want to see you naked any more than you want to see them naked. They simply want to use the "female" changing rooms because that is the sex they identify with.

That is an interesting spin on my words and I understand why you would feel that is an acceptable interpretation. I suspect you spun it this way because you believe I think there is a sexual desire involved, whether suspected or real? This is not the case, I am simply putting forth the wish that I do not wish to be naked in front of people with penises, regardless of the gender they identify with. There seems, however, a desire to label women who are uncomfortable in revealing their bodies as either being bigoted or having psychological problems of their own they need to deal with on their own, and that these women should be required to reveal their bodies to whomever others feel it is appropriate for them to reveal their bodies to. How would you feel if you were forced to reveal your body to someone you are not comfortable with revealing it to? Your teacher, or your employer for instance?

[Pirian]

"Men" "Women" "Those that don't want trannies to see them naked"

what the fuck does a third locker room mean if everyone can use it lol

Actually, I would support this idea because it means I can use it to peep on girls that are too scared to undress in their gender specific changing room for bigoted reasons, and they get to not change in front of trannies -- everybody wins!

[Demosthenes11]

is it just me, or does every thread someone makes like this have the OP being flamingly wrong? If I didn't look at the OP name, I would have thought it was a nynja thread tbh

[Demosthenes11]

That is an interesting spin on my words and I understand why you would feel that is an acceptable interpretation. I suspect you spun it this way because you believe I think there is a sexual desire involved, whether suspected or real? This is not the case, I am simply putting forth the wish that I do not wish to be naked in front of people with penises, regardless of the gender they identify with. There seems, however, a desire to label women who are uncomfortable in revealing their bodies as either being bigoted or having psychological problems of their own they need to deal with on their own, and that these women should be required to reveal their bodies to whomever others feel it is appropriate for them to reveal their bodies to. How would you feel if you were forced to reveal your body to someone you are not comfortable with revealing it to? Your teacher, or your employer for instance?

Are you intentionally trying to describe us as women haters?

[aduidarnenye]

Are you intentionally trying to describe us as women haters?

No, you can replace woman with man or just "anyone" if you'd like. Change all the gender pronouns and labels about in any which way that pleases you.

[archibaldcrane]

I'm not going to tell you not to feel uncomfortable. The whole transgendered thing is fucking weird and most people have such limited experience with it that it's almost impossible not to have some sort of reaction to it.

What I am telling you to do is suck it up - you can't possibly imagine how fucked up it is living as a woman in a man's body or vice-versa for your entire life, and your minor uncomfortableness is so completely dwarfed by having a shred of compassion or even perspective on the situation that you are a total fucking cunt if you don't just swallow your uncomfortable feelings and get over it.

[zoobernut]

That is an interesting spin on my words and I understand why you would feel that is an acceptable interpretation. I suspect you spun it this way because you believe I think there is a sexual desire involved, whether suspected or real? This is not the case, I am simply putting forth the wish that I do not wish to be naked in front of people with penises, regardless of the gender they identify with. There seems, however, a desire to label women who are uncomfortable in revealing their bodies as either being bigoted or having psychological problems of their own they need to deal with on their own, and that these women should be required to reveal their bodies to whomever others feel it is appropriate for them to reveal their bodies to. How would you feel if you were forced to reveal your body to someone you are not comfortable with revealing it to? Your teacher, or your employer for instance?

So really you can replace what makes you uncomfortable with ANYTHING for any person and if we cater to all those random things that make people feel uncomfortable then we wouldn't have a big changing room each person would have their own private changing room. But that is not cost effective for businesses so they came up with the system of a big room. People who are uncomfortable with the big room are free to find other means of changing for themselves.

Sounds like the best option for you in this hypothetical situation would be to remove yourself from the situation (news flash the business isn't forcing you into anything) rather than inconveniencing someone else for your own hangups with the human body and others who are different from you.

Edit: I also completely agree with Archi, if you really feel the need to use the big changing/locker room then suck it up.