Transgendered Changing Rooms

[Ksandra]

Aren't female locker rooms created because of penis and male locker rooms created because of vagina to begin with?

As for not ideal, it's definitely not easy to change in a bathroom stall.

I do it all the time and I bet I take up way more space than you do.

And last I checked the symbols are of a female and male not a dick and a vag.

[aduidarnenye]

no

Are you mixing gender with physical sex traits?

[zoobernut]

Should there be a reasonable expectation that the individuals in the changing room provided have similar genitalia to your own, should the business post signs explaining that pre-op transgendered women are allowed to change in those changing rooms, or should people simply expect that any woman present may be a pre-op transexual woman?

There should be a reasonable expectation that the rules of the sports facility will be held up whatever they are. It is the discretion of the sports facility to find the best rules for them in order to strike a balance to make the largest number of people comfortable and have a safe place to change. It is a reasonable expectation that you can have access to these rules before using the locker room to make sure you are comfortable with them. It is reasonable then if you are not comfortable with them to use different facilities. The expectation again of who changes where transcends genitalia. Your expectation is unreasonable.

Edit: Again gotta agree with Ksandra and Archi, they are mens, and womans changing rooms. they are not delineated by genitalia in any way.

[Bardicrune]

Except, it isn't, and the science reflect this.

Oh you mean that liberal horseshit spewed out by the media. If you have a penis, by definition, you are a male. If you have a vagina, by definition, you are a female. (unless you have both and are a hermaphrodite) It doesn't matter what you "feel" yourself to be. The FACT is all that matters.

[Lucienne]

This whole discussion is ridiculous. Who cares if someone has a dick or not honestly. The holiness of nudity is gravely exaggerated anyway.

[Demosthenes11]

Oh you mean that liberal horseshit spewed out by the media. If you have a penis, by definition, you are a male. If you have a vagina, by definition, you are a female. (unless you have both and are a hermaphrodite) It doesn't matter what you "feel" yourself to be. The FACT is all that matters.

trollolololololol

[archibaldcrane]

Are you mixing gender with physical sex traits?

No, but you are.

and this proves your point that you want to treat women with male genitalia as subhuman - not as women.

[aduidarnenye]

There should be a reasonable expectation that the rules of the sports facility will be held up whatever they are. It is the discretion of the sports facility to find the best rules for them in order to strike a balance to make the largest number of people comfortable and have a safe place to change. It is a reasonable expectation that you can have access to these rules before using the locker room to make sure you are comfortable with them. It is reasonable then if you are not comfortable with them to use different facilities. The expectation again of who changes where transcends genitalia. Your expectation is unreasonable.

If I get a copy of the rules for a sports facility and they read "The women's changing room is for female participants only." should I automatically assume they mean people with vaginas only or automatically assume anyone who identifies as women?

It gets very difficult to understand what is what when the pronouns are divided into but two categories.

[archibaldcrane]

Right, you have a hard time treating all women as women. Loud and clear.

[aduidarnenye]

No, but you are.

and this proves your point that you want to treat women with male genitalia as subhuman - not as women.

I do not feel comfortable with changing in front of random people with penises who identify as male either. I do not care what gender people identify themselves, if they have a penis I do not wish to change in front of them. Unless you believe I feel males are subhuman as well?

[RPGTyrant]

If I get a copy of the rules for a sports facility and they read "The women's changing room is for female participants only." should I automatically assume they mean people with vaginas only or automatically assume anyone who identifies as women?

It gets very difficult to understand what is what when the pronouns are divided into but two categories.

This is exactly why archi is so right, they already have a hard enough time with society in general classifying them. They should just use the room associated with the gender they were born into, which for all pre-ops is a very clear distinction.

[Pirian]

You're saying the same argument over and over. Just say that you don't understand why we are saying you're a bigot and get on with your life. Maybe sometime in the future you will finally see what everyone here is saying, but it isn't going to be here, and it isn't going to be now

[archibaldcrane]

Your argument is that if people are uncomfortable changing in front of people with "X" characteristic, then they should be afforded an alternate changing room - correct?

What makes the characteristic you are cherry-picking for this designation more valid than any other that have been used over the entirety of human existence to denigrate and marginalize minority groups?

[Demosthenes11]

for the record, no gender law in the US involves proving the presence of a gonad, specific genitals, or requiring a blood test for chromosomes.

[archibaldcrane]

Shit is like saying "I don't want to change in front of a Mexican because darker-skinned people make me uncomfortable" and then people freaking out and calling you a racist, and you replying "well I don't like changing in front of really tan white people either, so it's not about race".

[foopy]

is aduidarnenye trolling? i find it hard to believe she can be so dense.

having said that, perhaps the problem is that you are simply giving her way too much credit. you're assuming she will follow the logic and conclude she is in fact a bigot. yet i see archi and demo and others repeat the same thing over and over, to no avail.




1. you are entitled to any opinion. no one is questioning your right to be offended by the mere presence of a cock.

2. merely harboring such feelings already makes you a bit of a cunt (which is fine), but not quite a bigot, imo.

3. expanding on those feelings and demanding a 3rd special changing room, makes you a bigot. repeating over and over that you don't want to a to corral that in "their own" special room, and you'll gladly accept your own special changing room doesn't make you sound less bigoted, so please stop that.



just re-read everything you've typed so far, and replace the word 'trans-gender' with 'fat-people'. if you still feel you don't sound bigoted, then i don't know what to tell you.

i think fat people are nasty to look at (much like your penis aversion), i choose not to go to places with too many fat people (just avoid transgender hang outs). but when i do encounter a fat person, i walk away. i don't demand that i get my own special area to avoid them. because that would make me a bigoted cunt.

[Pirian]

I demand a separate changing room for people without arms. Sorry, you either have arms or you don't. 2 options here, and you armless people are just creepy

[aduidarnenye]

You're saying the same argument over and over. Just say that you don't understand why we are saying you're a bigot and get on with your life. Maybe sometime in the future you will finally see what everyone here is saying, but it isn't going to be here, and it isn't going to be now

No, I'm not saying I don't understand why you're saying I'm a bigot. I'm saying I don't understand why you're saying I'm a bigot because I don't feel comfortable revealing my body to some people. It sounds to me like I, and anyone who feels the same as I, should be forced to reveal our bodies to some people because they identify with the same gender but have not yet changed their physical characteristics, to make them feel included.

I would not force pre-op transgendered women to change in the male changing room due to discomfort, why am I not afforded a similar choice of avoiding genitalia I am not comfortable with?

[Kuya]

Chick afraid of penises what a surprise

[zoobernut]

I demand a separate changing room for people without arms. Sorry, you either have arms or you don't. 2 options here, and you armless people are just creepy

Even if they plan on getting the operation to have arms installed?