Transgendered Changing Rooms

[Lucienne]

I've only been to one gym in the last decade or so without separate changing areas for adults and children. Perhaps this is unique to my region.

My old gym was pretty small and only had one changing room. No one cared about it.
You're making a big deal out of something completely normal.

[Qalbert]

pedophiles

[drwaffles]

Helmet.

Jesus, just when I thought it couldn't get any stupider.

[aduidarnenye]

Jesus, just when I thought it couldn't get any stupider.

I guess the irony was lost on you.

[Demosthenes11]

pedophiles

http://images.bluegartr.com/customav...ar43834_77.gif

[aduidarnenye]

pedophiles

Understandable, except in my experience the children changing rooms were open to everyone while it was just the adult changing rooms that were closed to children.

[Jeryhn]

For what reason do you believe they should not be merged?

For what reason should a facility accommodate a person's discomfort with a penis within their general vicinity?

Ultimately, the only solution that is absolutely fair in the end is the unisex, all-ages changing room. However, I don't foresee that helping you with your reported problem with penises.

[Avanarius]

Well this just about sums up this thread

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...s/abrn668l.jpg

[aduidarnenye]

For what reason should a facility accommodate a person's discomfort with a penis within their general vicinity?

Ultimately, the only solution that is absolutely fair in the end is the unisex, all-ages changing room. However, I don't foresee that helping you with your reported problem with penises.

Generally, for the majority of the population, when a person with female genitalia who identifies as female (there is a serious lack of appropriate labels/pronouns going on here) goes into a female locker room they expect all the other people there to have vaginas. Same for the opposite situation with penises. I think this would cover the assumption of accomodation of not changing in front of a person with the opposite genitalia.

I do believe that eventually in Western civilisation we will see fewer and fewer gender distinctions.

What do you guys think about that family in Toronto that has refused to identify their newborn baby as female or male?

Also, for the record, this question is the result of a lunchroom conversation at work in which seven people (including myself were involved): six female, one male. Five females (including myself) were uncomfortable with the idea. One female and the male were fine with it. It was that female who got angry at us other five females and told us we were bigots, etc, etc. I generally like to sound things off on BG to gauge things and must say that I expected the "socially awkward gamer" stereotype to prevail on the side of uncomfortable. While a few people did come down on this side here, there's a very vocal side against it. I wonder why the major difference between real life and online, but probably can be chalked up to sample sizes.

[archibaldcrane]

Generally, for the majority of the population, when a person with female genitalia who identifies as female (there is a serious lack of appropriate labels/pronouns going on here) goes into a female locker room they expect all the other people there to have vaginas. Same for the opposite situation with penises.

And generally that expectation will bear itself out in reality - in fact 99+% of the time it will be the case. And when it's not, and you have that "wait what the fuck?" moment inside your head when you see something out of the ordinary, and then realize "oh right transgendered people exist, that woman has an unexpected penis" - you have a decision to make. Do you freak out, demand that a manager create special accommodations for you because you couldn't possibly be expected to disrobe in front of that subhuman freak of nature, or do you check yourself and say "right, okay, they're still a woman, I need to calm my shit down and deal with it".

I mean, obviously you want to do the former - it's just that you're fucking ridiculous.

[Mazmaz]

http://th1207.photobucket.com/albums...nY1qaoq1c1.gif

[zoobernut]

No one here made any claims if they would be uncomfortable or not. That is actually irrelevant to the discussion. Actually I think a couple of posts including mine stated that they wouldn't be uncomfortable however that is besides the point. The real point was your unreasonable and bigoted expectation of special treatment to accommodate your feelings so you were more comfortable.

Everyone is free to feel whatever they want to feel internally and do whatever they need to do on a quiet personal basis to make themselves more comfortable. You are confusing actions with thoughts/feelings, as well as gender with genitalia.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread who was vocally against feeling uncomfortable, just vocally against bigoted actions based on your feeling of being uncomfortable.

[aduidarnenye]

And generally that expectation will bear itself out in reality - in fact 99+% of the time it will be the case. And when it's not, and you have that "wait what the fuck?" moment inside your head when you see something out of the ordinary, and then realize "oh right transgendered people exist, that woman has an unexpected penis" - you have a decision to make. Do you freak out, demand that a manager create special accommodations for you because you couldn't possibly be expected to disrobe in front of that subhuman freak of nature, or do you check yourself and say "right, okay, they're still a woman, I need to calm my shit down and deal with it".

I mean, obviously you want to do the former - it's just that you're fucking ridiculous.

So you believe removing myself from the situation to another location to change is the same as "freaking out"?

As I mentioned, I was told clearly that I was a bigot unless I stayed in that situation which made me uncomfortable because moving to another location (not yelling, screaming, or complaining to management) would be treating the pre-op transgender person as subhuman. I found it ironic that shaming me was okay but not shaming another person, who may or may not notice it. I was told to leave the building and change in another building or location, or change in front of the person I did not wish to change in front of.

[zoobernut]

So you believe removing myself from the situation to another location to change is the same as "freaking out"?

As I mentioned, I was told clearly that I was a bigot unless I stayed in that situation which made me uncomfortable because moving to another location (not yelling, screaming, or complaining to management) would be treating the pre-op transgender person as subhuman. I found it ironic that shaming me was okay but not shaming another person, who may or may not notice it.

Way to subtly change your stance and argument mid stream which impacts your argument in a big way. This is not what you started out saying in this thread at all.

[aduidarnenye]

Way to subtly change your stance and argument mid stream which impacts your argument in a big way. This is not what you started out saying in this thread at all.

It's exactly the same. Change my location or dress in front of the person. It was implied I needed to leave the building, and leave the event I was attending, or undress in front of someone I was uncomfortable undressing in front of.

I'll mention it again. Moving into a bathroom is fine with me, but I would prefer to not have to do that. Also, I would prefer a warning sign on locations that allow pre-op transgendered people to change in the changing room of their choice, so that I can make that decision before it is made for me.

[archibaldcrane]

I would prefer a warning sign on locations that allow pre-op transgendered people to change in the changing room of their choice, so that I can make that decision before it is made for me.

holy fuck

can someone get a bigot a title change please?

[Lucienne]

What do you guys think about that family in Toronto that has refused to identify their newborn baby as female or male?

We have quite a few of those in Sweden. They give them neutral names like Kim etc. There is a girl atm that refers to herself as a boy more often than girl. Personally I think the kids have a right to know whether they have a penis or a vagina and that it would in general classify them as male or female. I do however feel that besides that, it is completely right to treat children of both genders exactly the same. If I had a son that wanted to play with dolls and wear skirts, I'd let him.

I generally like to sound things off on BG to gauge things and must say that I expected the "socially awkward gamer" stereotype to prevail on the side of uncomfortable. While a few people did come down on this side here, there's a very vocal side against it. I wonder why the major difference between real life and online, but probably can be chalked up to sample sizes.

You realize BG is a fairly poor representation of the close-minded homophobic nerds you describe, right?

[aduidarnenye]

holy fuck

can someone get a bigot a title change please?

There's a difference in having a sign saying this is allowed and hanging a sign around someone's neck to label them.

There are signs stating cell phones are not allowed in changing rooms. Someone wanted me to be aware of the rules. Why is there anything wrong with that?

You realize BG is a fairly poor representation of the close-minded homophobic nerds you describe, right?

I don't associate socially awkward with close-minded homophobic. Why did you immediately go there? I meant guys who are socially awkward around girls, as gamers stereotypically are portrayed.

[zoobernut]

It's exactly the same. Change my location or dress in front of the person. It was implied I needed to leave the building, and leave the event I was attending, or undress in front of someone I was uncomfortable undressing in front of.

At the beginning of the thread you implied that it was unreasonable for pre-op transgender people to use the locker room based on their gender identity and instead based on their genitalia, you then also implied that if this would not change that you would demand alternative changing accommodations from the venue that you were at and said it was their responsibility to provide that. You only then later dropped the idea of a third special for you changing room after someone brought up the brilliant and amazing idea that you can change in a bathroom stall.

So yes your argument from the beginning of the thread to the end has shifted subtly but in a fundamental way as to adjust your argument. Go back and read your earlier posts and it might make sense.

[Lucienne]

I don't associate socially awkward with close-minded homophobic. Why did you immediately go there? I meant guys who are socially awkward around girls, as gamers stereotypically are portrayed.

Oh ok, my bad.
Really can't figure out why I went that way.