Kansas Teen refuses to apologize for Tweet against Govenor

[Enygma55]

google, copy, paste = win

[Apelila]

well fuck me, no idea. I've been typing EA a lot instead of EE lately, its been bugging the hell out of me when I catch it.

[Plow]

I don't think that anyone in this thread would be up in arms if she got detention nor have they denied the schools right to give her detention (if someone did and I missed it oops sorry) this is about the governors office demanding an apology, not what sort of punishment the school might give her for breaking their personal school policy. This has nothing to do with the school and everything to do with the governors office.

where does it say the governor's office demanded an apology?

that would be a completely different issue, maybe that's why people are so pissed off about nothing

[Yugl]

He has a point. The quote in the OP suggests that the governor's office demanded an apology when she said she hopes the school and governor's office can move on, but there's no explicit mention that the governor's office asked for an apology. There may have been contact between the school and the office, but again, no indication that the governor asked for the apology at all. Even if there were contact between the school and the office, it is uncertain whether the that was to issue an apology or to rectify false information that she twitted on the website.

[Elvis]

He has a point. The quote in the OP suggests that the governor's office demanded an apology when she said she hopes the school and governor's office can move on, but there's no explicit mention that the governor's office asked for an apology. There may have been contact between the school and the office, but again, no indication that the governor asked for the apology at all. Even if there were contact between the school and the office, it is uncertain whether the that was to issue an apology or to rectify false information that she twitted on the website.

Kansas governor apologizes for 'overreaction' to teen's disparaging tweet - CNN

Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback apologized Monday for what he called his staff's "overreaction" to a disparaging tweet directed at him by a high school senior during a state Capitol visit.

Emma Sullivan, 18, said late Sunday that a Brownback staffer had notified her school's principal about the tweet, and the principal told her she had to write an apology to the governor. On Monday -- the deadline for the letter, according to the teen -- the Shawnee Mission School District issued a statement stating that "she is not required to write a letter of apology to the governor."

A statement issued by Brownback on Monday did not reference Sullivan by name or mention the prospect of any apology letter. He did emphasize his support for "freedom of speech," while thanking "the thousands of Kansas educators who remind us daily of our liberties, as well as the values of civility and decorum."

"My staff overreacted to this tweet, and for that I apologize," the governor said. "Freedom of speech is among our most treasured freedoms."

And what possible importance is there to 'rectifying false information'? Brownback's staffers created the controversy themselves. Which in-turn retroactively made these comments newsworthy.

It would have been just some random tweet by some random teenager (being a teenager) had they seen it as such.

[Plow]

Is what you bolded supposed to imply that the governor demanded an apology?

Again, it doesn't say that. It says an assistant told the school about it, and the school told her to write an apology.

It doesn't even imply that they told them to make her apologize, only that they pointed it out to them.

[Yugl]

Rectifying false information is a benefit in of itself. Do you think we should willingly spread false information? Enough on that topic.

I think you're missing the nuance of the discussion. Zoober said no one in this thread would be upset if she received detention for this incident. He continues to say that no one dies the school's rights in this matter (Presumably, this goes back to the school's ability to punish her). His most relevant comment is that the complaint people have (in this thread) is that the governor asked for an apology. That means that if one can show that there was no demand for an apology (or show that the article does not indicate that), then no one here should be upset. That is in line with Plow's goal, so it is reasonable for him to accept that challenge. Note that this has nothing to do with who made the comment newsworthy.

The title of the article and the first line you bold and underline indicate that he apologized for overreacting, but does not indicate what that overreaction was. Thus, it could have be as simple as him contacting the school about the tweet. The second line fails to indicate what that tweet was about explicitly. In other words, it does not indicate whether his call was because the tweet was in opposition or because the tweet was false. Thus, all we know is that there was a reaction and that this reaction was over the tweet. Anything beyond that is assumed.

The third line lends support to the assumption, but it's not clear whether that was a political move or whether he genuinely believes his staff attacked her freedom of speech. Given that his staff (The one whom he is apologizing for), not himself, is the one at stake, it would not be surprising if he threw them out without support on this issue. Consequently, to suggest that his office did or did not demand an apology requires assumptions not grounded in facts. Hence, it is a good avenue for Plow to take if he wants to rebuttal that guy's comment (Too lazy to scroll up).

[Jeryhn]

Semantic nonsense. Why would you call a school official who you can hire/fire at will to only let them know that one of their student's may have said something disparaging about you? (in response to Plow)

EDIT: fuck the quote button

[Yugl]

Semantic nonsense. Why would you call a school official who you can hire/fire at will to only let them know that one of their student's may have said something disparaging about you?

You've never heard someone say "Hi, I'm just calling to let you know ______"? It's a common tool of instigation. The intent is going to be assumed because you cannot read people's minds. As a response to Zoobernut, one could rebuttal that the intent was to mandate punishment for the action and Plow would still win the debate against him because Zoobernut said no one would be mad if it were the school's sanction and that the angst is against the governor's office demanding an apology. This means anything instigated by the office, if it is not an apology, is fair game and not grounds for angst among the opposition. The explicit approval of detention opens that gate as well. If that is not satisfying, as I anticipate, one could even argue that the contact was over the credibility of the tweet. In that case, you would need to defend freedom of speech to the point where false information is covered. I think many people would want to restrict freedom of speech in cases where knowingly false information circulates.

[Jeryhn]

That was supposed to be in response to Plow, actually.

YUGL Y U NO POAST SLOWR

[Yugl]

I blame peer pressure. Yep.

[Elvis]

Rectifying false information is a benefit in of itself. Do you think we should willingly spread false information? Enough on that topic.

I think you're missing the nuance of the discussion. Zoober said no one in this thread would be upset if she received detention for this incident. He continues to say that no one dies the school's rights in this matter (Presumably, this goes back to the school's ability to punish her). His most relevant comment is that the complaint people have (in this thread) is that the governor asked for an apology. That means that if one can show that there was no demand for an apology (or show that the article does not indicate that), then no one here should be upset. That is in line with Plow's goal, so it is reasonable for him to accept that challenge. Note that this has nothing to do with who made the comment newsworthy.

The title of the article and the first line you bold and underline indicate that he apologized for overreacting, but does not indicate what that overreaction was. Thus, it could have be as simple as him contacting the school about the tweet. The second line fails to indicate what that tweet was about explicitly. In other words, it does not indicate whether his call was because the tweet was in opposition or because the tweet was false. Thus, all we know is that there was a reaction and that this reaction was over the tweet. Anything beyond that is assumed.

The third line lends support to the assumption, but it's not clear whether that was a political move or whether he genuinely believes his staff attacked her freedom of speech. Given that his staff (The one whom he is apologizing for), not himself, is the one at stake, it would not be surprising if he threw them out without support on this issue. Consequently, to suggest that his office did or did not demand an apology requires assumptions not grounded in facts. Hence, it is a good avenue for Plow to take if he wants to rebuttal that guy's comment (Too lazy to scroll up).

From the original article which quotes the tweet in question, the girl was referencing something she said about the governor to a friend of hers. She did not speak with the governor directly although the tweet says 'in person'.

Since no one from the school or from the governor's office has confirmed this, then I think it is safe to assume she's telling the truth. Especially, considering that piece of information would put her in a worse light.

She did not write some scathing political expose or critique of the guy's policies.

She said he 'sucked'.

There is nothing to rectify.

@Plow

I was responding to the post by Yugl. Although both of you mention the governor's office.

The governor's office initiated all of this by complaining to the school. Whether or not the staffers pressured the school is besides the point.

They cared enough to complain and the principal felt strongly enough about it that he told the girl she was an embarrassment. Asking her to write an apology publicized the entire ordeal.

I'm not arguing that Brownback http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/p...png?1318992465, because it doesn't really matter. I don't see him as the bad guy here anyway. It's the principal and whoever from Brownback's staff that thought this was a big deal.

[Apelila]

Again, it doesn't say that. It says an assistant told the school about it, and the school told her to write an apology.

It doesn't even imply that they told them to make her apologize, only that they pointed it out to them.

It implies that they got their panties in a bunch over nothing, it's not a stretch to assume that they asked for this or suggested that it should happen to the school.

Here is her twitter feed. Now, its possible she removed something after this blew up, but notice there is no mention of her school/the trip anywhere in the timeline near #heblowsalot. This means that a staffer who's responsibility it is to monitor social media saw this tweet and made the call to investigate. There was, using only her twitter account, no way to know she had been on a field trip to the state capitol that day. They had to either get that information from the school, or put the information together after looking up her school and realizing that 'oh hey, they where here today on a field trip'.

It isn't a stretch to think that they asked the school for the apology, or for some sort of punishment. There are ways to spin this to make it look like the school over reacted if all they did was inform the school that a student of theirs was talking shit about the govenor.

[Yugl]

While your conviction may present another problem for Plow's argument, his post was a direct derivative from a post saying that only the apology (not the sentencing or even thread of detention) is problematic. Thus, you should grant leeway on his response since the post was tailored towards a specific chain of posts.

@Elvis: I think we generally agree on the issue. My confusion with the truth of her tweet came from the following portion:

During a Kansas Youth in Government field trip to the state Capitol on November 21, Sullivan wrote: "Just made mean comments at gov brownback and told him he sucked, in person #heblowsalot."
The Shawnee Mission East senior said she did not actually talk to Brownback, and the post referenced a joke she had with a student on the trip.

You're saying that this means her joke with friends was taken out of context (People mistook her intention accidentally). I read it as her intentionally misleading people into thinking she said that to the governor and used a joke she had with her friends. It's not clear which reading is correct since the article doesn't mention, so I'll just drop that issue.

[Elvis]

I could see it as 'did she tell the governor to his face' or not. It sounded that way from her tweet.

I don't think anyone took it out of context though. It's her own fault for how she worded it. Later on, she says it was to her friend and not directly to Brownback. That seems to be the truth too. I don't know what she was thinking, but maybe she was kind of bragging or talking tough. So the staffers were probably upset she claimed she had insulted Brownback in-person.

[Plow]

You're saying that this means her joke with friends was taken out of context (People mistook her intention accidentally). I read it as her intentionally misleading people into thinking she said that to the governor and used a joke she had with her friends. It's not clear which reading is correct since the article doesn't mention, so I'll just drop that issue.

gonna go with both, given

emmakate988 Emma Sullivan
I knew this day would come, but I didnt know itd be today #makingheadlines

It implies that they got their panties in a bunch over nothing, it's not a stretch to assume that they asked for this or suggested that it should happen to the school.

Here is her twitter feed. Now, its possible she removed something after this blew up, but notice there is no mention of her school/the trip anywhere in the timeline near #heblowsalot. This means that a staffer who's responsibility it is to monitor social media saw this tweet and made the call to investigate. There was, using only her twitter account, no way to know she had been on a field trip to the state capitol that day. They had to either get that information from the school, or put the information together after looking up her school and realizing that 'oh hey, they where here today on a field trip'.

It isn't a stretch to think that they asked the school for the apology, or for some sort of punishment. There are ways to spin this to make it look like the school over reacted if all they did was inform the school that a student of theirs was talking shit about the govenor.

so your argument here is that you're pissed off because you're assuming something that nobody involved with the situation has ever implied?

I hate to break it to you, but if the governor's office had demanded action, that in itself would be news and would not be left as something to guess at.

[Apelila]

I hate to break it to you, but if the governor's office had demanded action, that in itself would be news and would not be left as something to guess at.

Wait, so let me repeat what I think your position is. She shouldn't have gone to the media because she tweeted something offensive, correct?

As I said, for it to get back to her the govenors office had to have been involved. Yes, I'm making a shit load of assumptions, but I don't feel any of them are illogical.
If the goveners office didn't demand action, they could have thrown the school under the bus when this became a shit storm. In reality, they probably don't care because this will go away by next week. We'll never know who decided what because they want this to go away, not become a bigger shit storm.

You highlight in what I've quoted why people are kind of in a tizzy about this - because of the posibility that is being left open.

[Plow]

No, sorry, you're wrong.

What I'm saying is what the article says.

What you're saying is shit you're making up.

It's that simple.

[Apelila]

Alright then, if the school is responsible for making the girl write an apology, what is the govenor's office apologizing for if they didn't do anything wrong.

[Plow]

For having some staffer searching for tweets with his name and tattling on some retarded one by a high schooler.