Life expectancy ages and health care survey

[Darlantan]

Article here.

What's killing America? U.S. ranks 28th in life expectancy (lower than Chile and Greece) while it pays the MOST for health care

A new survey on health care is revealing that you may not be getting what you pay for if you check into a U.S. hospital.

The U.S. healthcare system is more effective at delivering high costs than quality care than other developed nations, according to the study, conducted by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, or OECD.

It found first-rate treatment for cancer but insufficient primary care for other ailments.

The study said Americans pay more than $7,900 per person for healthcare each year - far more than any other OECD country - but still die earlier than their peers in the industrialized world.

The cost of healthcare in the United States is 62 percent higher than that in Switzerland, which has a similar per capita income and also relies substantially on private health insurance.

Meanwhile, Americans receive comparatively little actual care, despite sky-high prices driven by expensive tests and procedures.

They also spend more tax money on healthcare than most other countries, the study showed.

An 'underdeveloped' U.S. primary care system is plagued by shortages of family doctors and high rates of avoidable hospital admissions for people with asthma, lung disease, diabetes, hypertension and other common illnesses.

The growth in U.S. life expectancy over the past half century is also below average, gaining only 8.3 years since 1960 compared with an 11.2-year OECD average.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7157/6...1fff94c9e0.jpg

The OECD said U.S. life expectancy of 78.2 years ranked 28th - just behind Chile's and well below the average of 79.5 years among member nations.

The United States was ranked fourth from the bottom for premature mortality, which focuses on deaths among younger people.

The measure, which reflects dangers posed by violence, accidents and environmental hazards, puts America behind all others except Hungary, Mexico and Russia.

Mark Pearson, head of the OECD health division, said researchers believe national mortality rates increasingly reflect the quality of healthcare, though more than half of the equation is still believed to lie with other indicators including lifestyle and diet.

The country with the highest life expectancy is Japan (83).

In Britain, life expectancy has increased at a slower rate than most of its European neighbours – thanks to its poor record on cancer survival and high levels of obesity.

The quality and cost of the $2.6trillion U.S. healthcare system are at the forefront of a rancorous national political debate over how to regulate and pay for treatment, particularly for the poor and elderly.

The 2010 U.S. healthcare reform law, which seeks to control costs over time by altering incentives for doctors and other providers, faces a constitutional challenge in the Supreme Court, and Republican presidential candidates on the campaign trail have called for its repeal.

Americans have fewer doctors and hospital beds, make fewer doctor visits, go to the hospital less often and stay for shorter lengths of time than about three-quarters of the other OECD countries.

But the United States is at the front of the pack when it comes to costly medical procedures including knee replacements, MRI and CT scans and tonsillectomies.

And it is consistently at the top of the cost chart for a number of procedures including caesarean sections, which are almost twice as expensive in the United States as in Germany.

Pharmaceuticals also cost about 60 per cent more than in a range of European countries.

Mr Pearson said one reason prices are higher in the United States is that the healthcare system lacks what other countries have: an effective government mechanism that acts to keep prices down.

"That's simply not there in the U.S. system. So it's a structural defect," he said.

I know the numbers may not be very accurate, but they shouldnt be that far off either. Chile is on top of the USA with a lower number because its a typo, they actually live a little more than most of you guys.

Not many of the "top" countries have a lot of things in common. I knew Japan was the #1, other countries are slowly catching up but they live more than a year more than the #2, which is quite impressive. From there and on, there arent gaps that big. I am actually very surprised my country is #2, lol. I'd bet its probably because some people have their dead grandparents listed as if they were still alive to get their pension. We do have good quality food, mediterranean diet, good climate... but our habits are shitty. It could be in the genes, too.

[Niiro]

The survey is a lie.

We spend the most money on health care ergo we are the healthiest.

So saith the Great and Powerful Free Market.

[Correction]

fatamericans.jpg

[Zalius]

bad education system
bad everything else

[Zalius]

here ill make a flowchart

EDIT: jk too much work

[Churchill]

fatamericans.jpg

This.

Even being 15 lbs overweight is a serious health risk

[Uzor]

There's several things wrong with this study.

First of; the only reason Americans spend more money on health care than other nations is because most - if not all other countries at the top of the list has free health care or at least a % that is paid by the government. They're also run as non-profit organizations whereas America's health care system is run on a profit-based system; which drives the prices up. For example; something that may cost $1000 in Sweden for the government to pay, may cost $4000 in the states because they want to make a profit, and expect your insurance to pay for it. The result is that everyone that either don't have an insurance, or can't afford the treatment, is to some extent left out of the system, which results in a lower life expectancy. In a lot of other countries on the list, even a dirt poor person without insurance can get the treatment they need, which increases the average life expectancy for the population.

American's general unhealthy lifestyle also contributes to the problem.

Secondly; Japan's average life expectancy numbers are highly inflated because of the number of people above 100 they have - and a lot of them aren't even real, as was shown in a previous article about Japan's 100+'s, where a lot of them had actually been dead for years, but was still shown as alive. Don't get me wrong; I'm sure Japan's average life expectancy is high - if not the highest - but it's not as high as the article suggests.

USA arguably have the best doctors and health care for those that can afford it.

[Coren]

There's several things wrong with this study.

First of; the only reason Americans spend more money on health care than other nations is because most - if not all other countries at the top of the list has free health care or at least a % that is paid by the government. They're also run as non-profit organizations whereas America's health care system is run on a profit-based system; which drives the prices up. For example; something that may cost $1000 in Sweden for the government to pay, may cost $4000 in the states because they want to make a profit, and expect your insurance to pay for it. The result is that everyone that either don't have an insurance, or can't afford the treatment, is to some extent left out of the system, which results in a lower life expectancy. In a lot of other countries on the list, even a dirt poor person without insurance can get the treatment they need, which increases the average life expectancy for the population.

American's general unhealthy lifestyle also contributes to the problem.

Secondly; Japan's average life expectancy numbers are highly inflated because of the number of people above 100 they have - and a lot of them aren't even real, as was shown in a previous article about Japan's 100+'s, where a lot of them had actually been dead for years, but was still shown as alive. Don't get me wrong; I'm sure Japan's average life expectancy is high - if not the highest - but it's not as high as the article suggests.

USA arguably have the best doctors and health care for those that can afford it.

Yaddayadda republicantalkingpointsyaddayadda.

Our primary care system blows. We spend a fuckload on ER visits that should have been $30 trips to buy cold medicine, etc. We are ranked nowhere near #1 in any healthcare list except spending. Our top doctors may be the best, but our system as a whole is damn near useless if you don't have the money to buy those best doctors. For-profit, government run care, etc etc that you discuss are irrelevant. The studies are about healthcare spending in general, not just spending out-of-pocket.

The main reason we spend the most on care is the private insurance companies that assrape us for more and more every year, while providing less and less. You are correct about the lack of treatment. I think that's the entire point. If we treated everybody equally, and quit treating poor people as 2nd class citizens, everybody would be happier, and healthier. And we'd quit being last on every list that comes out.

And you do realize what the word "average" means, right? If japan has people that are over 100, so do we. If we have less, then by definition it's going to drop the average. If we have a much higher infant mortality rate, that also can lower the average.

[Yugl]

In this thread, talking about the flaws of a study yet agreeing with the results is a republican talking point. Shit, no wonder all scholars are republican. Oh wait.

[archibaldcrane]

Your argument that "things cost more because companies compete for your business in the free market, for-profit system" is exactly the opposite of what Republican free-market proponents would want you to believe.

It's, obviously, an anti-free market argument if that's what pushes costs up.

inb4 swampy "regulations are what push costs up"

[Tyche]

I could go on for hours about this, but instead I'll just laugh at the guy who said that there's several things wrong with the study without pointing out a single thing wrong with the study.

[MaachaQ]

I'm currently living in Korea and the study does seem to be accurate from what I've seen. Many many old people, who look to be in better health than alot of old people that I've seen in my years in the US. I shudder to think of how much the health care I've been getting recently would cost if I was still in the US... Every 2 weeks I visit a psychologist for ADHD medicine for my 2 children; including medication costs it's about $200 a month. We've been to the nearby hospital (Seoul St. Mary's, one of the top hospitals in the country) a couple times a year for various things, and the ER visits always cost us less than $100, even though the kids would get X-rays, stitches, etc. One staggering example; my son needed stitches on his forehead last summer after he slipped on the stairs at school. He got an X-ray and CT scan to make sure he didn't have brain trauma or fractured skull, and got 7 stitches. Total cost to us, about $100. The next week we traveled to the US to visit my family, and had to visit an ER to have the stitches removed. We waited for over an hour in this small town Wisconsin ER and the removal of those 7 stitches, nothing else, cost almost $400. Luckily I still had money in my health savings account back in the states and didn't need to pay out of pocket for it.

There are so many things wrong with the US health care system, and companies have little incentive to change. Anything the government tries to make the system work better and get more people coverage (the "Obamacare" law) is attacked until it's either neutered or completely overturned.

[Hyan]

[Uzor]

Yaddayadda republicantalkingpointsyaddayadda.

Our primary care system blows. We spend a fuckload on ER visits that should have been $30 trips to buy cold medicine, etc. We are ranked nowhere near #1 in any healthcare list except spending. Our top doctors may be the best, but our system as a whole is damn near useless if you don't have the money to buy those best doctors. For-profit, government run care, etc etc that you discuss are irrelevant. The studies are about healthcare spending in general, not just spending out-of-pocket.

The main reason we spend the most on care is the private insurance companies that assrape us for more and more every year, while providing less and less. You are correct about the lack of treatment. I think that's the entire point. If we treated everybody equally, and quit treating poor people as 2nd class citizens, everybody would be happier, and healthier. And we'd quit being last on every list that comes out.

And you do realize what the word "average" means, right? If japan has people that are over 100, so do we. If we have less, then by definition it's going to drop the average. If we have a much higher infant mortality rate, that also can lower the average.

I'm, this is pretty much exactly what i Said. Istid artig you can affix Heath care, it's one of the best. I didnt say the system was the best. And yes, I do know what average means. What I said is that Japan has a lot of dead 100+ people that they include in their statistics, which is why their average is so high -- which you also seemingly agree with.

The article, for example, state the following:

A new survey on health care is revealing that you may not be getting what you pay for if you check into a U.S. hospital.

Which is just not true, since you get one of the best health cares in the world as long as you can afford it or if it's covered by your insurance. Otherwise you're fucked, however. The system sucks, yes, but not the health care itself. The study is flawed as it includes all kinds of deaths (including murder), which does not reflect the quality of health care. Additionally; it includes obesity-related deaths; which quite frankly does not reflect on the quality of a country's health care. Therefor, you can't really compare the cost of health care in the states to that of other countries, as they're based on two completely different systems and cultures. You get what you pay for; and as long as you can pay you can get the best. The article also states this:

Despite a lower-than-average life expectancy, the U.S. ranks the highest in survival of some cancers.

U.S. survival rates are the world's highest among breast cancer patients and the second highest, after Japan, for people with colorectal cancer.

Which shows that USA do have excellent health care for those that can pay.

Quite frankly, I have no idea why you argue with me when you seemingly agree win everything I said.

The study isn't necessarily flawed if all they wanted to show was the average life expectancies in various countries; but it in no way correlates to the quality of health care you get.

[Jer]

The study isn't necessarily flawed if all they wanted to show was the average life expectancies in various countries; but it in no way correlates to the quality of health care you get.

Exactly. Just because you may or may not receive sub-par healthcare when you need it in no way determines whether you live or die.

[Restrat]

So if there was only one high school in the country, that was really good, but only 1,000 students got to go to it, by your logic we could say "We have amazing high school education" ?

[Uzor]

Exactly. Just because you may or may not receive sub-par healthcare when you need it in no way determines whether you live or die.

Um, if you get murdered on a street it doesn't matter whether or not you get sub-par health care... Of course it matters if you get health care when you need it; that's my point. America's health care system sucks, but the health care by itself is one of the best assuming you can afford it; and it's the reason America spends so much on health care - it's extremely expensive, which is bad for the population as a whole. That in no way doesn't mean that the health care by itself is bad - just that the system is.

So if there was only one high school in the country, that was really good, but only 1,000 students got to go to it, by your logic we could say "We have amazing high school education" ?

That is not the case. You've plenty of hospitals, they are however very expensive. Like I said, the system sucks, but the quality of the health care is good. My point is that the study they've done in no way shows that the health care is bad; it just shows that USA citizens live for a shorter period of time. Which includes death from all sources; including obesity (which does not mean that your hospitals are bad; just that those Americans live unhealthy), and murder (USA do, after all, have a higher rate of murder than a lot of other countries on the list). You could take the exact same study and come to the conclusion that Americans (excluding Canadians, I know) live shorter because of any random reason. The study itself doesn't show WHY your life expectancy is lower; the health care is just a random conclusion they came up with; which is why it's flawed. It can be any number of reasons. America has the largest amount of obese people in the world, for example. UK, which has the highest amount of obese people in Europe, also fall low on the list. But the study doesn't show that. Health-related issues from obesity doesn't mean that your health care is worse.

Just looking at the numbers one could claim that it's because America speaks English that they're so low on the list; but that would be a retarded conclusion, even though you could make an argument for it by just looking at the numbers.

By your own logic, a country of 100 inhabitants have a bad health care system if a fat person eats newborn children, which lowers their average life expectancy. Yes, retarded example, I know. But I added it for humor factor as the conclusion they draw from the study is humorous.

[Tyche]

He's not saying that there aren't enough good hospitals, he's saying theres's vey few that can afford the "best". Your misinterpreted what he said much in the same way your misinterpreting the study. It's not arguing that we don't have the best doctors, it's arguing that it doesn't translate to better health in our country, and that's true. You're argument with obesity is completely incorrect as well, but I'm on a phone and I'll touch on it when I have time.

[Takedown3]

when u need a crane to lift you out of the chair and into bed there's something wrong for sure, before that you're cool tho no worries

[Uzor]

He's not saying that there aren't enough good hospitals, he's saying theres's vey few that can afford the "best". Your misinterpreted what he said much in the same way your misinterpreting the study. It's not arguing that we don't have the best doctors, it's arguing that it doesn't translate to better health in our country, and that's true. You're argument with obesity is completely incorrect as well, but I'm on a phone and I'll touch on it when I have time.

Are you guys even reading what I'm writing? This is what I've been saying throughout the entire discussion... And obesity does have everything to do with the discussion, as it's a large contributing factor why your life expectancy is smaller than the rest of the world. If you'd remove all of the obesity from America, your life expectancy would skyrocket. Stop reading a single line and assume I'm saying something I'm not.