Random Facts Thread: Traits and Stats (Player and Monster)

[Slycer]

Conserve MP warrants some testing. You can see below that many of the things we previously "concluded" about trait levels higher than I were totally wrong. The testing was done a bit out of order (I should have confirmed atma first, but was going by Byrth's previously confirmed values), but the end conclusions should be valid with 95% or greater confidence. Since Conserve MP doesn't cap (can go up to 100% proc = cMP+100), I used the method by which critical hit rate is tested (i.e. stack cMP 1 by 1 until every cast procs cMP). I did that until I got to a value where I could cast 300 or more times consecutively with every single spell proc'ing, which gives 95.1% confidence that the value is correct.

Note that trait levels 6 and 7 do not yet exist in game, only on the test server. After the next update, they will be exclusive to GEO90 and GEO99.

Right now I'm postulating that the trait levels from 1 to 7 are:

25 > 28 > 31 > 34 > 37 > 40 > 43

So far, I've confirmed 28, 31, 40, and 43, and I've used 25 as my go-by basis for trait level I which has previously been tested extensively.

Remaining tests:
1) Confirm trait levels IV and V
2) Check for higher trait levels on other jobs with conserve MP besides GEO (GEO trait levels were confirmed by SE in a recent post).

Testing Trait Level VII

GEO99 Trait + 2x Atma (40) + 26 gear = All procs (300+)
GEO99 Trait + 2x Atma (40) + 13 gear = Non-proc
GEO99 Trait + 2x Atma (40) + 14 gear = Non-proc
GEO99 Trait + 2x Atma (40) + 15 gear = Non-proc
GEO99 Trait + 2x Atma (40) + 16 gear = Non-proc (took like 150+ casts, but it eventually showed up).
GEO99 Trait + 2x Atma (40) + 17 gear = All procs (300+)

Assuming Byrth's tests for atma were correct and the two minor atma sum to +40 (confirmed below), Conserve MP VII is +43 Conserve MP.

Testing Trait Level VI

GEO98 + 2x Atma (40) + 17 gear = Non-proc
GEO98 + 2x Atma (40) + 18 gear = Non-proc
GEO98 + 2x Atma (40) + 19 gear = Non-proc (after ~100 casts)
GEO98 + 2x Atma (40) + 20 gear = All procs (300+ casts)

Again, assuming +40 for Blinding Horn and Undying is correct (confirmed below), Conserve MP VI is +40 Conserve MP.

Potentially +3 per trait level down to Conserve MP I - this would indicate that our value for Conserve MP II is incorrect. The traits would be 25 / 28 / 31 / 34 / 37 / 40 / 43.

Testing Trait Level III (Part I)

WHM99/GEO49 + 2x Atma (20 ea.) + 26 gear: Non-proc

This means that Conserve MP III is 33 or less (i.e. Conserve MP II is obviously not 33), again, assuming correct atma values.

Confirming Atma values:

WHM99/RDM49 (No trait) + Atma x3 (hypothetical 35+20+20) + 24 gear (hypothetical 99 cMP): All procs (300+)

Testing should have yielded a non-proc, but was likely capped, so the Atma must sum 76 or greater.

Going back to Byrth's original testing, the confidence level on the 35 seemed pretty low. Could be 36?

Removing a lot of gear to test:

WHM99/RDM49 + Atma x3 + 0 gear: Non-proc
WHM99/RDM49 + Atma x3 + 10 gear: Non-proc
WHM99/RDM49 + Atma x3 + 13 gear: Non-proc
WHM99/RDM49 + Atma x3 + 16 gear: Non-proc
WHM99/RDM49 + Atma x3 + 21 gear: Non-proc
WHM99/RDM49 + Atma x3 + 23 gear: Non-proc (after ~150 casts)

Doing 24 again just to confirm:

WHM99/RDM49 + Atma x3 + 24 gear: All procs (another 300+ casts)

Reasonable confidence that the three atma are 76, not 75. Assuming both "minor" are equal, and only integer values are possible, it's likely that the incorrect atma is Fetching Footpad (unless all three are incorrect).

Confirm "Minor" atmas are 40 cMP total:

Assume cMP+25 is correct for trait level I (BLM sub).

Hypothesis: Blinding Horn + Undying is 40 cMP total.

40 cMP +25 from trait, +35 from gear = 100

WHM99/BLM20 + Atma x2 (X) + 34 gear: Non-proc (after ~40 casts)
WHM99/BLM20 + Atma x2 (X) + 35 gear: All procs (400+ casts)

Reasonable confidence from those tests that X = 40. Therefore, Fetching Footpad must be 36, not 35, based on the tests above.

Assuming cMP "minor" from both Blinding Horn and Undying is equal, then each of them is 20. This is irrelevant in testing (they were only used as a sum) so I did not pursue testing these individually.

Back to testing trait level III:

WHM99/GEO49 + 2x Minor Atma (40) + 26 gear: Non-proc (previous test above)
WHM99/GEO49 + 2x Minor Atma (40) + 28 gear: Non-proc (after ~50 casts)
WHM99/GEO49 + 2x Minor Atma (40) + 29 gear: All procs (>500 casts)

Reasonable confidence that trait level III is 31 cMP.

Testing Trait Level II:

WHM99/GEO25 + 2x Minor Atma (40) + 30 gear: Non-proc
WHM99/GEO25 + 2x Minor Atma (40) + 31 gear: Non-proc
WHM99/GEO25 + 2x Minor Atma (40) + 32 gear: All procs (>350 casts)

Reasonable confidence that trait level II is 28 cMP.

[Slycer]

Should also note that the previous notion that trait level II was 33 cMP is obviously wrong, unless the trait somehow drops from level II to level III. My guess is that BLM and SCH have intermediate levels of cMP (at least one, if not two), that people never tested for.

Edit: Random note - once the update happens, GEO will get Max MP Boost traits at 30 (+10), 60 (+20), and 90 (+40).

[futan]

blah. wrong thread.

[dasva]

Lvl 99 worms have 124 int, 40 MAB and 0 MDB. Testing for this was done prior to the magic update so if things have changed good way to check

[dasva]

The new birds Tulfaires take -50% to slashing. Not sure if it's some pdt involved with it yet though just something I saw using my excal

[Yugl]

Ceizak Sheep have INT91 for those that wish to test dINT values.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...1_09.35.40.png

[Yugl]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fjx49zv3m...0INT%20reading

LV101 Umbril at Ceizak seem to have INT125. Since the DMG multipliers for Umbril were unknown, I used a comparative method.

Quake II: V=800 Multiplier=2
Fire V: V=800 Multiplier=4.8

So at the Y-intersection, these two should have the same value and that should be at dINT=0, so I used that for this check. In other words, (V+dINT*Multiplier) and if dINT=0, you're left with V onry. To progress this idea, Quake II outdamaged Fire V before reaching dINT=0 because negative dINT values make high multiplier spells more detrimental (Basically, if you're going to use a spell with high multiplier, you better make sure you're positive dINT). I then tried a nuke with a good deal of INT gear (Roughly 150ish total?) and had Fire V outdamage Quake II as expected (When dINT is positive, Fire V should outpace Quake II DMG). From here, I adjusted INT values until they did the same DMG and that occurred at 125INT with 1960 DMG.

Incidentally, this 1960 DMG fixes out multipliers issue stated earlier. I specifically picked these spells because I wanted to avoid the possibility of an unknown RUN shield multiplier (Earth and Fire spells do double dmg exactly when using BLU spells, so onry the multipliers related to element seem to be this 2x multiplier).

(Base)(Bonus)(MAB/MDB; search this thread for proof of no MDB)(Unknown multiplier)
(800)*2*1.4*X = 1960
2240X=1960
X=0.875

So Umbrils have a 12.5% MDT in effect. I'll test darkness next since I assume this may be why we see shit DMG from Requiescat.

Edit: Dark DMG is fine with ES, so doubt.

[Yugl]

Umbril tests with Twilight and Formless:

Twilight:https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fjx49zv3m...light%20Damage
Formless:https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fjx49zv3m...20Umbril%20DMG

Each is a relatively minor sample, but the difference is profound for each. When you view the Twilight sample, [2] means two hits. So within this sample we see:
64-79 non-crits
114-168 non-crits

With formless, the double dmg is pretty obvious (500 DMG per hit suddenly? Oh ya) and resembles what we see with Spirits/ChiBlast.

Note that the formless bonus isn't due to breath damage because BLU breaths receive NQ DMG if not Fire/Light/Earth element. Twilight and Requiescat have the text "Non-Elemental Damage" whereas Formless just says "Not Physical"; Mura has no text, so idk. If someone has, they can check themselves.

[dasva]

Thought we already had the multipliers... anyways that 2 hits thing is it just adding 2 hits together? Also is it just me or were you doing more with twilight enchantment down?

[Yugl]

I had some speculative multipliers based on 1k Needles and Meteor damage, but I some spells (Namely, magic) had some explanatory issues. The fact that they had 125INT seems to have remedied that issue.

As for twilight, the intent was to show that the non-enchantment hits did more damage. Seems they resist this type of damage, but formless type of dmg is fine. I'm not sure how the non-elemental dmg multiplier becomes applicable though. Also, the weapon bash should show 75% PDT or Slashing resistance, but I think posted that earlier?

[dasva]

Yeah thought I had posted some testing I'd done with non physical dmg on them that basically aligns with your multipliers. Weapon bash is blunt but 25% aligns with tests I've done. Also have slashing at -50% which is why I find non enchantment dmg doing much more so surprising. Is there a way on bg wiki to actually attach values to the types of resistance on mob pages? Just wondering since info posted in here isn't always as readily seen.

[Yugl]

Could throw them onto the notes section: http://bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Umbril

For detailed mechanics, the current plan is to use one page (ex: Damage Type page would list every resistance/resistance value/resistance type). The 50% slashing makes sense because players reported shitty Requiescat DMG, so enchantment dmg would be less than 50% of the original dmg before any attributes considered. I've been busy trying to make BLU templates, so I haven't fixed up the mechanics pages.

The current plan would seem like:
1. Base Damage Page
2. Page for multipliers (pDIF/fTP/DMGType/Resistance/etc)

The trick is to then decide a way to make these easy for users to piece together simplify edits.

[dasva]

Ah that's true. Guess I'll keep posting in here. For future reference I think I have all the physical dmg types for soa specific mob types prior to last update in here. Well not counting the stationary stuff that doesn't attack back lol. Kinda got part way thru with magic/breath since that's a little longer with having to test elements as well

[dasva]

Note that the formless bonus isn't due to breath damage because BLU breaths receive NQ DMG if not Fire/Light/Earth element.

Well meteor isn't one of those and it still takes 75% extra dmg. Perhaps it's a they take 75% extra magic/breath and dark/water/thunder/ice/wind get 50% sdt? So maybe formless is just counting as no element or maybe light or something?

A theory I have for twilght/scat that goes along those lines. When testing them I saw 50% less peircing dmg and 25% less blunt dmg then what was expected. But what if instead of it having .5 and .75 for the dmg type multipliers what if it had much lower ones while having a +100% or so pdt? So when going to the non element it still accounted for the reduction from slashing but no longer accounted for the +pdt and effectively halfed the dmg?

Is it possible to just test pdt without dmg types of a mob to figure this out?

[Darkmagi]

Mura also goes into that catagory that does shit damage on umbrils. It was one of the first things I tested after getting mine since formless wrecks them. Was excited for super easy umbril ooze farming, nope.

[Yugl]

Well meteor isn't one of those and it still takes 75% extra dmg. Perhaps it's a they take 75% extra magic/breath and dark/water/thunder/ice/wind get 50% sdt? So maybe formless is just counting as no element or maybe light or something?

This seems to be correct. Breath spells do 2x dmg and magic does 1.75x dmg though.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...6_11.32.03.png

The normal damage should be 447, but because there was a division before the multiplication, we see that they had 50% resistance even with elemental seal.

As for the other issue, I kind of understand what you're saying but I need you explain more. Weapon bash and axe JA should handle that?

[dasva]

Basically my theory is that normal methods of testing weapon type bonus/weakness also have pdt factored into them. And that what we see as -50% slashing may in fact be -75% slashing with a +100% pdt. Not necessarily those values but that concept kinfa like how it seems to be working with breath and magic dmg.

And that non element basically just means it ignores dt. Normally that does nothing or boosts your dmg but if the mob had a +dt then it would effectively lower dmg.

As far as testing with tomahawk that might work. Though reading on it either tomahawk is weird or this isn't the first mob to do something like I theorized and we just didn't realize. I say that because reading the pages it almost sounds like it works on dt as well melee types

[Yugl]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...6_14.46.20.png

So damage type reduction instead of PDT.

As for your idea, this image seems to go against that as well unless you intend for the JA to affect both multipliers.

[dasva]

Lol the actual dmg isn't in the log. Was it actually 21 and I assume lvl 99 drk? augmented tomahawk? But yeah tomahawk description almost makes it sound like it works on pdt too. I mean it helps with invincible which I thought was 100% pdt

[Yugl]

Yeah, NQ JA WAR. I had BM filters and they're a bitch to adjust. Toma doesn't affect invincible I believe.