Race to World First Documentary

[Viq]

It's also far from being just WoW.

Mostly I just find morons that say shit like "well they only won cuz other guilds got punished for their cheating, if they just let everyone cheat no way they would have got it!" absolutely hilarious.

I don't think the second half of that is accurate. It should be, "Well they only won (which they actually didn't) cuz other guilds got punished for cheating. If the other guilds didn't cheat, no way BL would have gotten it!" Essentially it's that, despite what the wowprogress boards say, people don't actually believe BL is better at the game than Paragon or Method, which I think is a fair assessment.

[Correction]

people don't actually believe BL is better at the game than Paragon or Method, which I think is a fair assessment.

By what measure is one guild better at the game than another? All the top 50 guilds put in equivalent amounts of planning during the PTR phase of things, and it's not as if any part of any fight was held in secret. It was 100% a level playing field and it's a game of 'who plans better?' and 'who plays for longer?' I'm really curious by what standard Method/Paragon can claim being better when neither guild claimed a world first throughout heroic Dragon Soul. The margins of victory are slim but c'mon, Method never even saw a world third on anything this raiding tier.

[seph32]

It all comes down to who becomes first I mean usually top 300 guilds on US and EU if not more usually clear the entire content and have it on farm, Heroic LK/Ragnaros w/e. Some guilds just take longer to take down a hard boss than another guild.

[ringthree]

I don't think the second half of that is accurate. It should be, "Well they only won (which they actually didn't) cuz other guilds got punished for cheating. If the other guilds didn't cheat, no way BL would have gotten it!" Essentially it's that, despite what the wowprogress boards say, people don't actually believe BL is better at the game than Paragon or Method, which I think is a fair assessment.

Killing bosses first is usually the best indication of which guild killed the bosses first.

By your logic, sports would be rather uninteresting to watch because they would always be won by those that were supposed to be better.

[Viq]

Killing bosses first is usually the best indication of which guild killed the bosses first.

By your logic, sports would be rather uninteresting to watch because they would always be won by those that were supposed to be better.

I think people are taking an extremely narrow view of what I'm trying to say. Absolutely, no doubt about it, BL beat the EU guilds in T13. Let's look at a little bit of a broader picture though:

1) BL had a head start of one week. The EU guilds exploited LFR, and were rightfully suspended for the first heroic lockout. BL also raided through Christmas while at least some of the EU guilds took several days off. Despite all this, BL beat the first EU guild by 16 hours. This could simply be a matter of, as someone mentioned before, the EU guilds increasing their raid times after that first lockout to catch up, while BL may have maintained their standard schedule. That's certainly a possibility, as I don't have access to how many hours these guys spent physically raiding.

2) My assessment that BL's T13 ranking may not be indicative of their ability relative to other guilds does not look at T13 in a vacuum. Again, there is no dispute that BL beat the EU guilds through T13 content. However, taking point number one into account and the fairly large distance between the EU guilds and BL in tiers 11 and 12, it seems reasonable to me to say that BL still isn't on the level of some of the other guilds. Once again, this could simply come down to a time commitment thing, or any number of other issues that us spectators will never know about.

In the end, it's all moot. Accept your KR and TW overlords.

[Correction]

Who planned better? The guild that counted on LFR exploits or the guild that didn't? You're still hand-waving with vague words like 'level.'

[Viq]

I just don't think planning is the only thing that matters. I think you may have missed my point entirely, so here it is as simple as I can make it: Because of how crazy T13 was, there isn't any single thing, be it "planning" or whatever, that you can look at to determine which guild is better at this moment.

[Plow]

Unless of course you believe "not cheating" is not something to be held against you.

[ringthree]

I just don't think planning is the only thing that matters. I think you may have missed my point entirely, so here it is as simple as I can make it: Because of how crazy T13 was, there isn't any single thing, be it "planning" or whatever, that you can look at to determine which guild is better at this moment.

Except there is: you could look at which one killed the bosses first.

You just don't appear to like that outcome, so you are making excuses.