Patch 1.20 Notes~

[Manako]

Feels like there is less influx than with 1.19, but I think it will take til the weekend to know for sure. I don't think TOR is going to have a huge effect on the already depopulated game, probably won't be noticeable in comparison to the standard rate of people leaving.

[Scary]

population is still low,

i noticed something funny, not sure if its just me or a bug. But double weakness = full restoration now?

or am i tripping.

[Corrderio]

Pretty sure I'm not going to subscribe to the game. Can see people going the ARC only route for this fight. And if that's the case, fuck it.

[Fievel]

Pretty sure I'm not going to subscribe to the game. Can see people going the ARC only route for this fight. And if that's the case, fuck it.

It's like that in any MMO though really, people will always favor certain classes for certain events. Also through nerfs and buffs jobs will always rise and fall from popularity.

[Charismatic]

FFXIV has had far more extreme versions of that than any game I've ever seen (yes, even FFXI), of course it is the community's fault more than the game's but its still true.

[Fievel]

FFXIV has had far more extreme versions of that than any game I've ever seen (yes, even FFXI), of course it is the community's fault more than the game's but its still true.

Completely disagree, xi was no different. They have always had classes rise and fall in popularity and it was always NO THIS JOB ONRY for different events. Look at abyssea, mnk war nin only. There are many many examples I could give but I really dont think its needed.

I don't disagree with the fact that it sucks, but it's sort of the nature of the beast.

[Kaylia]

If balance doesn't exist in FFXI or XIV, it must not exist anywhere. Right?

[Fievel]

If balance doesn't exist in FFXI or XIV, it must not exist anywhere. Right?

I was giving an example, and even said that it's like this in any MMO.

But yeah, go ahead and ignore what I actually wrote just so you can make a smart ass remark.

[Kaylia]

I was giving an example, and even said that it's like this in any MMO.

But yeah, go ahead and ignore what I actually wrote just so you can make a smart ass remark.

Except that it does exist, which is the whole point of my remark.

While a perfect balance may not exist, class stacking can definitively be avoided.

[Elcura]

I think the problem is that there's no synergy between the jobs. There's no reason to not stack the same jobs and no benefits for diversity.

Of course, that doesn't matter if the fights are designed better. I was honestly hoping moogle would have more movement based combat, but I guess they avoided such things because of server issues.

[Lordender]

SE and balance, LMAO.

The beginning of FFT is the closest thing they have ever came to a balanced game and even then as the game went on the balance kept getting worse until it got flat out broken.

Other mmo's atleast in their current form have it to where certain classes aren't flat out ignored. This was always the Issue in XI and is an ongoing theme in XIV. If you look at today's WoW, the only guilds that class stack are those racing for world firsts which is such an astronomical % of the raiding community, other than that everyones a few % within each other depending on movement/mechanic's in a fight but its not so terrible that its one way or the highway type of deal for the average players.

[solracht]

I was giving an example, and even said that it's like this in any MMO.

But yeah, go ahead and ignore what I actually wrote just so you can make a smart ass remark.

His point is balance does exist in other MMORPGs. Barring very extreme and specific examples, class stacking is not only rare in Warcraft, but sometimes detrimental because you miss on class-buffs. Different classes and even specs are so close in terms of damage/healing/tanking that you can actually choose to play what you want.

While someone will argue that this is possible because a lot of things have been homogenized over the years, Warcraft classes and specs are still more varied in terms of playstyle, skills, and resources than in this game, so that's moot.

It's not silly to expect some balance in an MMORPG, especially when the biggest competitor manages to do just fine.

I'm definitely not expecting Square Enix to do well balancing their MMORPG, and I'm willing to level what's needed to get things done, but don't get surprised when the masses bitch or quit if their favorite class is useless, because they're used to greener grass at this point. This is not 2003.

[Kaylia]

I think the problem is that there's no synergy between the jobs. There's no reason to not stack the same jobs and no benefits for diversity.

Of course, that doesn't matter if the fights are designed better. I was honestly hoping moogle would have more movement based combat, but I guess they avoided such things because of server issues.

A bandaid solution could be to give a 5% dmg+healing buffs every time you bring a different class to the party (a more fancy solution would be to give every class an unique buff). While it doesnt fix the underlying issue, it does force some diversity in the party.


Range vs melee is still one hell of an issue however. The only real solution is to not have any mechanics (balance dmg output for every class), or design fight in such a way that both ranges and melees are challenged in a different way, or are needed.

[Kaylia]

His point is balance does exist in other MMORPGs. Barring very extreme and specific examples, class stacking is not only rare in Warcraft, but sometimes detrimental because you miss on class-buffs. Different classes and even specs are so close in terms of damage/healing/tanking that you can actually choose to play what you want.

While someone will argue that this is possible because a lot of things have been homogenized over the years, Warcraft classes and specs are still more varied in terms of playstyle, skills, and resources than in this game, so that's moot.

It's not silly to expect some balance in an MMORPG, especially when the biggest competitor manages to do just fine.

I'm definitely not expecting Square Enix to do well balancing their MMORPG, and I'm willing to level what's needed to get things done, but don't get surprised when the masses bitch or quit if their favorite class is useless, because they're used to greener grass at this point. This is not 2003.

Final Fantasy does allow you to switch jobs on the fly, so the issue might not be as important as it could be in a game like WoW. However, they really need to improve many aspects of the game before forcing players to level multiples class.

Not that class stacking should ever be the best solution. They really need to balance that.

[Elcura]

Yeah, I'd rather see something unique, but honestly any reason to be diverse is a good thing. If there are classes that people use a lot, make the classes that aren't used as much compliment them. If the mages are in danger, give melee classes ways to protect them or something. There's a distinct lack of basic creativity. I don't need innovations, but at least give the impression of thought.

Range vs Melee is more dependant on how the fight is designed. People instinctively go for the path of least resistance, so if there's anyway to avoid damage people will go for it and usually that means ranged wins out because most fights are designed with close range aoe rape. SE really has only themselves to blame for that.

[solracht]

Final Fantasy does allow you to switch jobs on the fly, so the issue might not be as important as it could be in a game like WoW. However, they really need to improve many aspects of the game before forcing players to level multiples class.

Yea, that's why I said "some balance".

We really need debuffs or damage spells that are cast on random members regardless of range also, and some that are only used by the NM if you're too far. Being at range should mean you have to deal with different mechanics, not that you can avoid them altogether.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Class stacking is stupid. Personally we're gonna be trying various job setups this weekend on Moogle. My opinion is that SE has almost no clue how to balance classes in every encounter. We show them how broken class stacking is, they bend to our will (since nerfing is unpopular at this stage), and they just make another encounter a different class can stack on.

Oh Pugilist, how forgotten you are.

[Cichy]

the fuck is this guy wearing?

[Elcura]

Oh Pugilist, how forgotten you are.

I know right? I'm gonna try PGL right now to see what's up. But between Archer's ranged attacks and easy combos, I doubt anything else will be popular.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Tons of Marauders. Tons. Having to open their 3-parter from the side is not that big a deal imo, and the damage potential is pretty big. Lancers 3-parter on the other hand is a bit of a pain in the ass since you gotta open from the rear, bridge from the flank, but can finish anywhere. Too much movement involved imo.