Patch 1.20 Notes~

[Fievel]

Oh hey you should take your own advice! If you'd take the time to read what I wrote in a single sentence you'd see that I was wondering about the recast timers not the TP costs that were clearly listed and mentioned, not only in the update notes but in a teaser about the entire combo system itself!

So yeah, try doing a little reading before you make an ass of yourself over nothing.

Um, when did I ever say you were talking about TP costs and not recast timers? Please, show me.

If they're going to waive recast timers from combo, it'll be in the update notes, herp.

So yeah, try doing a little reading before you make an ass of yourself over nothing.

[miokomioko]

Waiving TP costs and recast timers would be entirely lol It would be similar to the original Penta Thrust situation.

[Fievel]

Waiving TP costs and recast timers would be entirely lol It would be similar to the original Penta Thrust situation.

Definitely, lol.

Penta thrust used to be so much fun, but so so broken.

[Elcura]

Waiving TP costs and recast timers would be entirely lol It would be similar to the original Penta Thrust situation.

Wasn't Asuran Fists with Relic Knuckles more broken than Penta Thrust? I remember you could basically just spam Asuran Fists after you got 100% because all the hits would give you back 100%+ again.

Fun times.

[Dein]

Um, when did I ever say you were talking about TP costs and not recast timers? Please, show me.

If they're going to waive recast timers from combo, it'll be in the update notes, herp.

So yeah, try doing a little reading before you make an ass of yourself over nothing.

Right so you missed the point of my original post, herp. It's not really worth dragging this out though as you don't care enough to say anything besides "huurr read better".

Waiving TP costs and recast timers would be entirely lol It would be similar to the original Penta Thrust situation.

Don't really see how it'd be like Penta Thrust spam from back in the days. Just seems extremely clunky to tack on such huge recasts for a lot of the skills when most combos have the first skill on a 10 second cooldown already.

[Fievel]

Right so you missed the point of my original post, herp. It's not really worth dragging this out though as you don't care enough to say anything besides "huurr read better".

lol

Wasn't Asuran Fists with Relic Knuckles more broken than Penta Thrust? I remember you could basically just spam Asuran Fists after you got 100% because all the hits would give you back 100%+ again.

Fun times.

Could you really? I had never heard of the Asuran Fists thing but that was back before I level'd monk, that would've been fun to play with.

[Dein]

8 hits and 999 delay gave back insane amounts of TP when WS hits gave full TP.

[miokomioko]

Don't really see how it'd be like Penta Thrust spam from back in the days. Just seems extremely clunky to tack on such huge recasts for a lot of the skills when most combos have the first skill on a 10 second cooldown already.

By the time you executed the other weaponskills #2 and #3 in the combo line entirely for free, the auto-attacks that barely fall between them would probably have earned you enough TP to start it all over again with #1 if weaponskills #2 and #3 had no long recasts (like they generally do). That would make melees pretty much in a constant state of weaponskills... which is dumb. There has to be something obstructing you from just spamming abilities. When TP isn't a factor (when combo'd), the recasts take over that role.

In regards to the Relic Knuckles, that was more of an obvious exploit of a purposefully shitty weapon paired with a flawed TP algorithm... where Penta Thrust was spammable by just about any Dragoon or Samurai without taking advantage of anything. And it was like that for quite a long time, if I recall correctly.

[Dein]

Eh, you'd still need TP to start the combos and I doubt you'd get enough back with just auto-attacks with how short they are currently. Besides, the combo system seemed like XIV's version of a rotation and that'd be much more preferable to relying on auto-attacks while waiting on TP/long recasts. We'll have to see though after the update goes live.

Edit: Not to mention that you'd be waiting on the starting WS timer for most of these combos to start them back up anyway.

[LD]

That would make melees pretty much in a constant state of weaponskills... which is dumb. There has to be something obstructing you from just spamming abilities.

The mechanic itself isn't dumb. If it were used while WSs were balanced to be spaced out over longer periods of time, it would cause problems, but speeding up gameply isn't a bad thing. Spamming abilities by using a resource that's built up by auto-attacking is essentially Fury Warrior from WoW. Some may not like it, but it's a valid mechanic.

The fact that FFXIV is still measured in minutes instead of seconds is what will continue to hold this game back.

[Spider-Dan]

Wasn't Asuran Fists with Relic Knuckles more broken than Penta Thrust? I remember you could basically just spam Asuran Fists after you got 100% because all the hits would give you back 100%+ again.

In theory, yes... but you needed all 8 hits of Asuran to get back to 100%, and back in the pre-sushi era, that wouldn't have been particularly easy (especially against anything that mattered).

[miokomioko]

speeding up gameply isn't a bad thing.

Nor is it always a good thing. I think it would be much more valuable to create strategy/decisions for the time that exists instead of just closing in the gaps entirely.

Some may not like it, but it's a valid mechanic.

Sure, it is a valid stand-alone/optional mechanic... if one chooses that type of class, but creating a battle system where that is the optimal way to play all melee classes is a whole 'nother story.


This is a pretty pointless disagreement either way. The recasts won't be waived.

[Dein]

Again, we'll have to see how battles feel after this update to really say. It just seems odd to regress to such long CDs on skills when it seemed they wanted to make combat feel faster earlier on. Also, since this current system with auto-attacks and long CDs reminds me most of XI I'm not seeing how they're going to create good strategy/decisions with slow combat but that comes down to personal opinion.

[SilverBreeze]

It's hard to ever see combat in this game ever becoming fast paced when it takes 2-3 seconds to use an ability, instead of just applying the effect to you, in addition to making you stand still before and after the animation. Abilities like Quickstride are nigh useless in combat and make things worse than not using it at all. It's silly because when you need to get away from something it should be what you would want to use.

[LD]

This is a pretty pointless disagreement either way. The recasts won't be waived.

Not with that attitude. My point obviously wasn't that all melee should be the same. Pointing out the fact that spamming WSs isn't something we should shy away from was just an easy way to segue into the point that all of the recasts in this game are ridiculously long and something has to be done to fix it. Most MMOs use the WoW model to go about it. I don't know what FFXIV could do, but that would be a good start.

As for strategy, that's a complicated conversation, but slow game play doesn't create better strategy/decision making. This is basically a chess vs. speed-chess conversation now. It's the same game, what's the difference? How long it takes, that's what. Is speed-chess better? No, and most people can't play it that fast. The people who can, however, will be bored with a slower game. Do you understand what I'm saying? We're in the twitch era. Who want's to play Risk in this demo?

[Spider-Dan]

We're in the twitch era. Who want's to play Risk in this demo?

Hey man, Risk 2210 is pretty awesome.

In any case, it seems like the gameplay might be even slower than you think (or, at least, I thought); Keen Flurry is still an ability, but now it only partially reduces WS recast. And LNC gets a trait that makes Keen Flurry 50% more effective at reducing recast, which tells me that it's probably pretty weak out of the gate.

[LD]

Hey man, Risk 2210 is pretty awesome.

Don't get me wrong, I've played some fun board games and I take forever when I play Yugioh. However, if FFXIV wants to stop being japan-only and start being an international player, they have to understand that this won't be something people will be drawn to with WoW & Rift setting the pace.

[Rocl]

Axis & Allies or get out of here w/ your weak ass Risk shit

[Datonare]

Speaking of recast, I hope that stupid recast bug gets fixed. Getting tired of having to reboot the game to fix it, only for it to come back when I switch classes.

[solracht]

Skimmed through the last pages so I don't know if it was mentioned, but the "recast: 5 seconds" on the trait descriptions is gone. Guess it was a typo after all.