College at age 11...

[AidenCarby]

I was pretty bored at school, never did homework and only showed up on test dates. A- student cause homework was 10% of our grade, was too genius for tits and masturbating and friends? Smart people don't need friends.

[archibaldcrane]

Most all of the friends I grew up with don't game, go to church twice a week, and spend 8-10 hours a day under ground covered in black dust. I couldn't be any different than most of my high school peers. Coal mining here offers potential to earn 6 figures without taking a single step into a college classroom. Many took the easy way out.

No Tyche, this is obviously wrong. Americans wont work hard physical dangerous unskilled labor jobs no matter how much you pay them. You saw white people covered in coal dust, but those were actually just regular Mexicans.

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[Ivve]

Ah, the arrogance of assuming one is bored because they are not challenged. Perhaps, and this may come as a shock to some of you, school is just boring because the material is not being taught in a way that's engaging. Presenting bald facts and figures isn't interesting to most people.

In America, we have a type of learning system that panders to the absolute lowest common denominator. I sincerely doubt you even need to be "gifted" to be faced with the issue of not being challenged in the classroom. The vast majority of my NQ classes were full of people who were bored out of their minds, beind held back by one or two dunces who needed everything explained to the Nth degree, who really just needed to just be moved to a remedial class. The problem was that you basically needed to literally be mentally retarded before the school would move you to remedial learning.

If that wasn't the case, then classes moved slow because people simply did not care about or see the value in the material they were learning, so they fucked off and performed poorly or to bare minimum standards, leading people to believe they needed more instruction. Nobody is paying attention during English, because few people legitimately give a fuck about learning anything related to literature. Nobody sees the value in learning to spell shit when spellcheck is available on every instrument ever, so nobody's going to even begin to try to give a fuck. Few people see the value of learning decent communication skills, like grammar or essay writing, because they assume they will never need to actually write anything once they leave school -- and the fact is that most of them actually won't. The most fuck that will be exerted is exactly what's required to pass without bogging down your overall GPA too much, if you're shooting for a scholarship. There is zero real world motivation to learn anything. So unless you just have a passion for learning shit, most people won't bother. As long as we continue to treat this as if it's a legitimate way to feel, education will continue to blow balls.

If we were less afraid of sticking morons into appropriate moron classes to remove what is essentially fucking PS2 limitations on the average class, shit would improve. If we were less afraid of moving ahead at a predetermined pace and leaving the burden of reading, studying, and grasping the information actually in the hands of the students, shit would improve. It would do people some good to actually fail at something, so they finally understand: you are not as good as you think you are.

[Seanr]

bravo, i agree.

[Ivve]

Few people see the value of learning decent communication skills, like grammar or essay writing, because they assume they will never need to actually write anything once they leave school -- and the fact is that most of them actually won't.

In fact, I want to expand on this a little bit. Poor communication skills won't even make you lose your job. How many times have we seen retarded-ass signs posted in public fucking places with ridiculous spelling or grammar errors? How many people do you personally know who send nearly fucking indecipherable interoffice emails? Now, how many people do you know who are actually fired for these things? It's not just that we don't personally value that knowledge; we don't value it in anyone else either. It's not just a matter of me personally having low standards for my own learning. It's that nobody is holding me responsible for having shit learning standards either. It's created a system in which learning some things really has zero quantifiable benefit.

And to be honest, at times I can see a point in that. There is never going to be a time where I'm doing math that truly matters, where a calculator is not available to me. Most of the time, there won't even be a real life problem that I can't solve without the benefit of the internet for help. I honestly really don't need to know what six times seven is off the top of my head, or how to determine the volume of anything. I don't need to memorize the mathematical formula for anything, because I actually do have the freedom to just look it up. At times, it might be faster or more convenient if I did just know those things, but I don't even know my mom's phone number without looking in my phone for it. Other people know this too, and it doesn't inspire anyone to get REALLY GREAT at mental math. If that's not something that comes naturally to you, I don't think there are an overwhelming number of people who are going to appreciate the value of being able to do it. Just whip out your calculator. Just like with spellcheck, the shit is built into every fucking electronic you own. There's probably one in my microwave for shit's sake.

I think a lot of schooling is not really applicable to real life, and I think a lot of other people can see that too. It takes place in an unrealistic environment, under unrealistic conditions. There is not going to be a time when you can't just get up from your desk and go take a piss if you need to. There isn't going to be a time when you're not allowed to go get something out of your car. There isn't going to be a time when shit like pens or pencils aren't just available at your damn job. You don't have to bring that shit in, come on. They put a lot of emphasis on things that don't really make any sense, distract from the shit that does, and introduce a lot of unnecessary irritation into your life.

[Kellanved]

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...s-college-for/

[Greatguardian]

Pretty much.

People are trollin' around and acting like smartasses because so many people feel like they're ahead of the curve.

Truth bomb? They are. The curve is abysmal. Damn near anyone who isn't literally mentally retarded is ahead of the curve or should be. Why can't students be taught calculus at age 10? I was, and I had no problem with it. It wasn't just me, either. There were 15 other kids in my class. Some were white, a couple asian, a few blacks, none were tryhards or socially deficient bookworms. Most of us were also varsity athletes, and I was personally the captain of my high school's varsity swim team. On paper, people might call us "Superior human beings", but we were just regular kids who were allowed to succeed as much as we wanted. That's all it took.

The point isn't that so many people are superior, but rather than people in general are significantly smarter than anyone gives them credit for - at least, with a blank slate. The problem is, not only does the system intentionally hold people back, but it tries its damnedest to bring them down too. Not only are people bombarded with the idea that not only can they not succeed, but that they shouldn't, and anyone who does succeed only does so because the bar is so low, but the media then turns around and bombards people with white-black thinking 24/7. People are intentionally pushed away from critical thinking.

Yeah. Everyone really is a god damned genius. Why? Because the bar the world has set for itself is too damn low.

[Ivve]

I guess? Everyone is a genius compared to the tiny fraction of idiots schooling is designed to pander to, but I think most of us are capable of discerning that means that in reality, most people are just average. Setting the bar low doesn't redefine what you're capable of doing, it just changes what's expected of you. That's why most people are like, shut the fuck up, you're not a genius. Because really, you're not. You're just operating in a system that treats you like you should be more dumb than you are, and it gives people a false sense of being more intelligent than they really are. I think it's damaging to overinflate peoples' egos by calling them "gifted," or "above average," when they're really not. The average has just been defined much, much lower than what it is in reality. The point is, we should all fucking know better. These same people who set the bar low can tell me the sky is red, and I'll still know they're full of shit and I'm not a fucking genius. It's not rocket surgery here.

[Quicklet]

I think some people are confusing being bored with something because it doesn't interest or motivate them versus being bored with something because it's so completely trivial that most people don't even understand why you're bored.

[Ivve]

I think so too. I think the vast majority of people are average and fall into category one there, but people have come to equate "bored" with "gifted," so now everyone thinks they belong in category 2. Do not think that is the case.

[Jakson]

I'm probably wrong about this, but I thought there was some thought process from a long time ago (like ancient Greece) that you taught as many people as much as could be taught (like math or language skills they didn't need) in case some catastrophe/army/etc. were to come and wipe out most of a population, and the remainder would have retained the information (hopefully) so that, even with libraries and whatnot destroyed, the info wouldn't be lost.

[archibaldcrane]

What I don't get is:

Did people not have Talented And Gifted/AP classes in high school they could take to get out of the pool of retards dragging everything down?

[Mertron]

What I don't get is:

Did people not have Talented And Gifted/AP classes in high school they could take to get out of the pool of retards dragging everything down?

talented program started during second grade where i grew up

back when i rode a stegosaurus to class

[Restrat]

I went to a pretty bad school district in the rust belt, not in a big city, and they still managed to have an academic magnet high school with tons of AP classes

[Chips]

Do American high schools have streamlined classes for their students? In Canada we have "college" level courses and "university" level courses. College courses are much easier than University courses. We also have programs for those that want to carry a massive workload, but rarely are students put into those programs.

[Priran]

My schools had a program like that but I remember there only being like, 5 other kids in it? Which means it's probably had its funding reallocated to sports and/or making sure Beavis and Butthead pass the standardized exams, and no longer exists.

[Restrat]

It depends on the state, school district, and even the school

[hey]

Do American high schools have streamlined classes for their students? In Canada we have "college" level courses and "university" level courses. College courses are much easier than University courses. We also have programs for those that want to carry a massive workload, but rarely are students put into those programs.

My high school had three groupings: general, college prep, and honors. They all taught the exact same material, the only difference was how much pointless homework was required, and how much time you saved not explaining shit 500 times (which then went into going over the extra homework you got, instead of learning other things the other classes didn't).

[Seanr]

I'm in category 3 :>

[arus2001]

What I don't get is:

Did people not have Talented And Gifted/AP classes in high school they could take to get out of the pool of retards dragging everything down?

Nope. Even then, if people have such options, it's a matter of weighing possible social benefits learning amongst your peers against acquiring book smarts that, as some have noted, don't have much of a real world application unless it's directly related to an eventual career. Some may thrive on this, sure. Others may suffer. Perhaps as the world spins closer toward technology replacing man for certain tasks, skipping ahead isn't as disastrous since lacking a strong/mature body isn't as needed compared to even 50 years ago. On the other end, were I a senior and an 8 year old Doogie Howser showed up in my class, I'd be a bit curious and overall indifferent about the guy, but I have no doubts other people around would scoff and scorn, more than likely behind his back. And to what end might he get special treatment because he is an eight year old amongst 15-17s?

Anyway, I'm in agreement our education system needs work. I'm just not sure pushing kids ahead or even home schooling is the unanimously best choice. To employ a popular FFXI addage, "Shit's situational." Adults need to be in a better place to recognize this, but on some level, I can't help but feel if they weren't similar when growing up, they may miss the signs. Would the world be a better place if only geniuses were our teachers? Possibly. I don't think there are that many to go around, let alone the money to pay them and keep them from more profitable careers.