Feds: Yeah, Joe Arpaio is kind of a dick

[Senoska]

Because there is a problem with drugs and a huuuggggeee problem with children being kidnapped for reasons of sex slaves or ransoms. I live here in Arizona, there is much more to arpaio then the crap the media spews.

Also how the hell is he suppose to do his job without racially profiling? Look at where he is living, looking for illegal Asians, Africans, Canadians is not exactly going by common sense.

Huge problem with illegal mexicans, not like you are going to catch these guys by asking them to turn themselves in. Not to mention half the state can't speak english.

Im actually terrified of whats going to happen when he finally leaves office. The next guy is going to be an fing tool for any politician to use.

I was going to pick this apart and show you why you cannot assume all people with brown skin cannot speak English or are breaking the law, but instead I made you a picture.

[Kiehl]

What defines proper documentation? Driver's license + more?

[Yuri-G]

well in the link that was posted on the previous page, he had to provide a birth certificate.

[Lestat]

so if you were Hispanic, born here legally, would you be ok with random traffic stops and having to carry documentation at all times, because racial profiling is a valid tool to keep out illegals? given that there is clear evidence of not only racially profiling suspected criminals, but also law-abiding citizens via unnecessary traffic stops among other means.

I ask because if I were Hispanic, I wouldn't feel that the harassment was worth it, but maybe you feel differently.

Actually my mother is an immigrant coming from africa, with dark olive skin, on a couple occassions she was stopped, took less then 5 minutes when she showed her papers until she got her social security card. So until the problem is mediated then everyone is going to need to man up and recognize that life is not fair.


Its the consequences what illegal immigrants are doing, the high majority of illegal immigrants in AZ is hispanic coming from mexico which AZ shares a large part of the border with, those that do not live near quadalupe have no idea how bad it is when entire area's are no longer advertising in english inluding the stores.

Come up with a better solution to the problem, because ignoring the problem is a no go.

[Churchill]

Someone describe a method to target illegal aliens and smugglers/traffickers outside of what Arizona does

[Yuri-G]

Actually my mother is an immigrant coming from africa, with dark olive skin, on a couple occassions she was stopped, took less then 5 minutes when she showed her papers until she got her social security card. So until the problem is mediated then everyone is going to need to man up and recognize that life is not fair.


Its the consequences what illegal immigrants are doing, the high majority of illegal immigrants in AZ is hispanic coming from mexico which AZ shares a large part of the border with, those that do not live near quadalupe have no idea how bad it is when entire area's are no longer advertising in english inluding the stores.

Come up with a better solution to the problem, because ignoring the problem is a no go.

you didn't answer my question. so you would be okay with getting stopped at random in traffic, for example, because of the color of your skin, if it was in the name of fighting illegal immigration? and if for some reason you forgot your papers, you would be okay with being detained in a police station until a family member or significant other could provide them?

[Lestat]

I was going to pick this apart and show you why you cannot assume all people with brown skin cannot speak English or are breaking the law, but instead I made you a picture.

Since when did i say all people with brown skin cannot speak english? Sure half the state is a bit much but trust me its not far off. I live here, i think i would know better then most, im sure jonny could attest to this.

[Lestat]

you didn't answer my question. so you would be okay with getting stopped at random in traffic, for example, because of the color of your skin, if it was in the name of fighting illegal immigration? and if for some reason you forgot your papers, you would be okay with being detained in a police station until a family member or significant other could provide them?

Yes, i would be, why? Because i would not be oblivious as to the reason why, i would instead be much more aggravated to those creating the problem, rather then those trying to find a solution.

[Kiehl]

So a driver's license and a copy of your birth certificate. Seems easy enough to provide those if you live in a state with an absurd illegal immigrant population. Less than a 5 min traffic stop I would imagine. Granted, if I was pulled over consistently every week, then I would be pissed. But once a month to provide 2 items, easy peazy.

[Headspace]

Better hope you're not 5 mins late for work.

Trucks drive by the home depot at 9 am sharp

[Yuri-G]

Yes, i would be, why? Because i would not be oblivious as to the reason why, i would instead be much more aggravated to those creating the problem, rather then those trying to find a solution.

well, you're sticking to your guns at least. can't fault you for that.

[Yuri-G]

So a driver's license and a copy of your birth certificate. Seems easy enough to provide those if you live in a state with an absurd illegal immigrant population. Less than a 5 min traffic stop I would imagine. Granted, if I was pulled over consistently every week, then I would be pissed. But once a month to provide 2 items, easy peazy.

it's the humiliation, the shame, the fact that white people don't have to deal with this shit and you do, the fact that you're forced to carry around sensitive documentation that is better off left in a locked safe at home. I don't have a car and ride the bus everywhere - would I have to keep my birth certificate on my person at all times? what if I want to go out to the bar? I don't even bring things like my PSP or a library book on the bus ride to the bar because I'm afraid I'll lose them; I sure as hell wouldn't want to bring my birth certificate with me.

[Churchill]

Someone describe a method to target illegal aliens and smugglers/traffickers outside of what Arizona does

.

[archibaldcrane]

Someone describe a method to target illegal aliens and smugglers/traffickers outside of what Arizona does

My biggest problem with that immigration law is that there were no guidelines to define what constituted "reasonable suspicion" that someone isn't here legally - since rampant racial profiling (driving while brown) couldn't have been the stated intent of that law.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

My biggest problem with that immigration law is that there were no guidelines to define what constituted "reasonable suspicion" that someone isn't here legally - since rampant racial profiling (driving while brown) couldn't have been the stated intent of that law.

I thought we settled this when the law was passed. There is a double layer of protection. There's the PC/RS required to stop the person. Then the law states that the cop needs RS to then question them about their immigration status. The governor then issued an order, or the law was amended, stating that skin color or something can not be a basis for the RS. And if you want the definition of RS, here you go: specific and articulable fact, not a hunch, that gives rise to RS that criminal activity is afoot

[Yuri-G]

I thought we settled this when the law was passed. There is a double layer of protection. There's the PC/RS required to stop the person. Then the law states that the cop needs RS to then question them about their immigration status. The governor then issued an order, or the law was amended, stating that skin color or something can not be a basis for the RS. And if you want the definition of RS, here you go: specific and articulable fact, not a hunch, that gives rise to RS that criminal activity is afoot

and yet a pattern of racial profiling and discrimination has been established despite what was said in the law and by the governor, indicating that there are serious problems within Joe Arpaio's department that need to be resolved.

[Lestat]

and yet a pattern of racial profiling and discrimination has been established despite what was said in the law and by the governor, indicating that there are serious problems within Joe Arpaio's department that need to be resolved.

How can you not be accused of racially profiling given the source of the problem?

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

and yet a pattern of racial profiling and discrimination has been established despite what was said in the law and by the governor, indicating that there are serious problems within Joe Arpaio's department that need to be resolved.

These seem to be the key paragraphs to me since they outline specifically what he did.

"The civil rights report said federal authorities will continue to investigate complaints of deputies using excessive force against Latinos, whether the sheriff's office failed to provide adequately police services in Hispanic communities and a large number of sex-crimes cases that were assigned to the agency but weren't followed up on or investigated at all.

The report took the sheriff's office to task for launching immigration patrols, known as "sweeps," based on complaints that Latinos were merely gathering near a business without committing crimes. Federal authorities single out Arpaio himself and said his office, known as MCSO, has no clear policies to guard against the violations, even after he changed some of his top aides earlier this year."

Notice anything about the first paragraph? He didn't do anything wrong, they'll just keep investigating.
Notice anything about the 2nd paragraph? He didn't take any action, he just sent out patrols. Doesn't sound like anyone was arrested.

Where's the Latino abuse?

[Yuri-G]

How can you not be accused of racially profiling given the source of the problem?

exactly. he is profiling, and profiling is illegal, whether it works or not.

[archibaldcrane]

And if you want the definition of RS, here you go: specific and articulable fact, not a hunch, that gives rise to RS that criminal activity is afoot

And what "specific and articulable facts" constitute reasonable suspicion should've been codified into the law so that it's not up for extremely broad interpretation by redneck asshole sheriffs.