Iran Thread

[Jeryhn]

Are you seriously proposing that an Iranian nuclear scientist was killed by an exploding car? A bomb was attached to the car by a passing bicyclist.

No, I was suggesting that injecting humor into one of these threads isn't necessarily trolling.

[Elvis]

No, I was suggesting that injecting humor into one of these threads isn't necessarily trolling.

If it were anyone else I would take it as humor.

[Elvis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acAtHhCPOCg

Video is more in-depth than the article and why isn't it showing up btw...

[archibaldcrane]

If it were anyone else I would take it as humor.

jesus christ man

it was a pretty funny joke

[Elvis]

Via Mondoweiss, citing Mark Perry at ForeignPolicy.com:

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/01/bombsh...r-on-iran.html

Excerpts from Perry's article:

False Flag
A series of CIA memos describes how Israeli Mossad agents posed as American spies to recruit members of the terrorist organization Jundallah to fight their covert war against Iran.

BY MARK PERRY | JANUARY 13, 2012
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article.../13/false_flag

Buried deep in the archives of America's intelligence services are a series of memos, written during the last years of President George W. Bush's administration, that describe how Israeli Mossad officers recruited operatives belonging to the terrorist group Jundallah by passing themselves off as American agents. According to two U.S. intelligence officials, the Israelis, flush with American dollars and toting U.S. passports, posed as CIA officers in recruiting Jundallah operatives -- what is commonly referred to as a "false flag" operation.

[...]"It's easy to understand why Bush was so angry," a former intelligence officer said. "After all, it's hard to engage with a foreign government if they're convinced you're killing their people. Once you start doing that, they feel they can do the same."

[...]While the memos show that the United States had barred even the most incidental contact with Jundallah, according to both intelligence officers, the same was not true for Israel's Mossad. The memos also detail CIA field reports saying that Israel's recruiting activities occurred under the nose of U.S. intelligence officers, most notably in London, the capital of one of Israel's ostensible allies, where Mossad officers posing as CIA operatives met with Jundallah officials.

The officials did not know whether the Israeli program to recruit and use Jundallah is ongoing. Nevertheless, they were stunned by the brazenness of the Mossad's efforts.

"It's amazing what the Israelis thought they could get away with," the intelligence officer said. "Their recruitment activities were nearly in the open. They apparently didn't give a damn what we thought..."

The report then made its way to the White House, according to the currently serving U.S. intelligence officer. The officer said that Bush "went absolutely ballistic" when briefed on its contents.

"The report sparked White House concerns that Israel's program was putting Americans at risk," the intelligence officer told me. "There's no question that the U.S. has cooperated with Israel in intelligence-gathering operations against the Iranians, but this was different. No matter what anyone thinks, we're not in the business of assassinating Iranian officials or killing Iranian civilians."

Israel's relationship with Jundallah continued to roil the Bush administration until the day it left office, this same intelligence officer noted. Israel's activities jeopardized the administration's fragile relationship with Pakistan, which was coming under intense pressure from Iran to crack down on Jundallah. It also undermined U.S. claims that it would never fight terror with terror, and invited attacks in kind on U.S. personnel...

What has become crystal clear, however, is the level of anger among senior intelligence officials about Israel's actions. "This was stupid and dangerous," the intelligence official who first told me about the operation said. "Israel is supposed to be working with us, not against us. If they want to shed blood, it would help a lot if it was their blood and not ours. You know, they're supposed to be a strategic asset. Well, guess what? There are a lot of people now, important people, who just don't think that's true."

[Andalusian girls]

sometimes, i can't help but love Israel for being one of the few nations on earth to really and truly not give a fuck

sometimes

[Elvis]

sometimes, i can't help but love Israel for being one of the few nations on earth to really and truly not give a fuck

sometimes

Are you American? Or only sometimes.

Sometimes.

[Elvis]

It must be easy for the Israelis to "not give a fuck" when they're pretending to be Egyptians, or British civilians, or Palestinians or in this case American spies.

[Andalusian girls]

it's almost as amusing as when they stole uranium from us

and i am american, all the times. pertinence ?

[archibaldcrane]

Reading that something, anything, actually enraged GWB is a bit refreshing though.

[Elvis]

In Condi Rice's memoirs, she writes that after almost forcing Dubya into seeing the territories, he said in a whisper, in despair, "horrible."

Of course he didn't do anything about it but he probably couldn't anyway.

The secretary, who calls her approach “transformational diplomacy,” is hoping for a breakthrough also with the Israelis and Palestinians. Considering that she served the friendliest administration the Israelis will probably ever see, it’s instructive to compare her complaints about Israeli trickiness and maneuvering to those that have seeped out of the embattled Obama White House. Israel was a close ally and a democracy but its leaders were “sometimes a nightmare to deal with”; they had to be warned not to lobby Congress; in any conversation “there was a ‘but’”; they “always seem to overreach”; getting the Israelis “to actually carry through on promises relating to the Palestinians” was a continuing frustration, particularly promises involving Jewish settlements in the West Bank.

On a presidential visit to Israel in 2008, Bush travels to Bethlehem by car rather than helicopter against the wishes of the Israelis because Rice wants him to see “the ugliness of the occupation, including the checkpoints and the security wall…for himself and [because] it would have been an insult to the Palestinians if he didn’t.” The barriers were taken down, the convoy traveled at speed, but Bush got the point, according to Rice: “‘This is awful,’ he said quietly.”

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/dec/22/rocky-ascent-condoleezza-rice/?pagination=false

[Elvis]

AJE interviews Mark Perry:

[Ragnus]

Hurray. More fuel for my argument that the US really needs to stop riding Israel's dick like we're paid to do it. Shit, one reason I'd never be president is that I would have thrown Israel under the bus for this in a heartbeat.

[Kuya]

We gotta be careful not to get off topic and turn this into another Israel thread, since it's not, but am i correct in my suspicion that Israel's Mossad could have used Jundallah for the assassination of Iranian scientists?

[Elvis]

We gotta be careful not to get off topic and turn this into another Israel thread, since it's not, but am i correct in my suspicion that Israel's Mossad could have used Jundallah for the assassination of Iranian scientists?

You're right but I think w/ regards to the recent assassination, Israel is a likely suspect. The False Flag story written by Mark Perry does not make any explicit connections though.

[Correction]

We gotta be careful not to get off topic and turn this into another Israel thread.

I already don't like that this is 'the Iran thread' since it encourages dumping any story into it and threatens another megathread. I'd rather treat this thread like the "Oh Iran captured a military drone" thread and treat all subsequent stories in their own threads.

[Elvis]

You could have people post articles and let them fade/attract attention on their own volition instead of mega-threads.

I agree that most mega-threads aren't very helpful because the discussion inevitably goes off into tangents.

So how do you know what to post in a BG political forum? I think most people here (certainly those who comment regularly) will care more about the economy than Israel-Palestine. People will care about Iraq and Afghanistan I think.

I'd like to 'inform' (post articles about the day-to-day stuff in I-P + my own commentary which is from a Palestinian solidarity POV) but I think most people here do not participate in the discussion because it's not on their personal radar. Just like how I'm not very interested in talking about the economy (which is more relevant to the average American). The internet is tribal too so you could characterize BG as left-leaning for the most part.

There shouldn't be any rules to what news you post. Just let the thread fail if it isn't attention grabbing.

Then the sub-forum develops organically.

[Mazmaz]

Post whatever you wanna post. Look at my Canada threads getting 0 replies, but at least 38 people viewed the story. My only goals is to spread awareness anyway.

[Correction]

Post whatever you wanna post. Look at my Canada threads getting 0 replies, but at least 38 people viewed the story. My only goals is to spread awareness anyway.

I can live with this, honestly.

Not everything posted to the forum needs to be the usual ping pong of egos sure that the other side of the argument is always wrong. Embrace forum churn, BG.

[Cail]

Post whatever you wanna post. Look at my Canada threads getting 0 replies, but at least 38 people viewed the story. My only goals is to spread awareness anyway.

thats why i made it. found myself wanting to post so many various iran related stories that i figured 1 thread for it all was good before people started bitching i was making too many threads on 1 similar subject.