Maryland Speed cameras

[Tweek]

government shouldn't give out speeding tickets to people unless they're trying to give them to the people who are speeding.

totally and completely agree if we are talking about actual speeding tickets I would genuinely be pretty pissed if they were, or I suppose I would be equally pissed if I couldn't understand the fundamental difference between an automated speed camera fine and a moving violation speeding ticket that was issued via a police office.

[NynJa]

Tell me, why do I think that parking tickets and automated speeding tickets involve different responsibilities by the government in identifying the driver?

I've said it many, many times.

Because you're a fucking cheap bastard who cant man up for what he's done wrong.

[Tweek]

Tweek, you've been actively following this thread:

Tell me, why do I think that parking tickets and automated speeding tickets involve different responsibilities by the government in identifying the driver?

I've said it many, many times.

you really haven't made it clear tbh not trolling.. the best answer I saw from you on this was providing additional information to get out of said parking tickets to which I countered many of those same reasons to get out of the parking tickets you could apply to these speed camera tickets and both cases would be dismissed i.e. if it wasn't your car, which obviously if it wasn't your car that got the parking ticket and you could prove it (let's say your car was impounded at the time or some shit) you would be able to use the same defense to get out of both tickets. If you can prove it wasn't your car (it's tough to do when they got a photograph) then you should and will be able to get the case/ticket dropped

other than that you've said automated many times and used the word negatively I'm having a difficult time wrapping my head around why it's so bad especially when they provide a photograph and when personally I trust a machine/system more than most shady ass cops but that's not the point either

[archibaldcrane]

Because you're a fucking cheap bastard who cant man up for what he's done wrong.

I'm not concerned about the dollar amount of the fine, which i've told you a number of times, and I'm not concerned with people who actually were speeding and got tickets.

It's amazing that you don't believe me - I'm not lying to you.

[Demosthenes11]

I'm not concerned about the dollar amount of the fine, which i've told you a number of times, and I'm not concerned with people who actually were speeding and got tickets.

It's amazing that you don't believe me - I'm not lying to you.

I don't understand the problem.

Was I driving when the ticket was issued? If yes, done. If no...
Was my car stolen? If yes, done. If no...
Do I know who was driving my car? If no, back to previous step. If yes...
Ask person who was driving to pay your fine, and I guess take them to court if you feel so inclined after they refuse to pay. It literally is the exact same situation as a parking ticket in this regard

[hey]

Because you're a fucking cheap bastard who cant man up for what he's done wrong.

I thought you were done with this thread?

[NynJa]

Then why, with your hypothetical situation where your gf gets caught speeding in your car by one of these cameras, instead of having her pay it (or you pay it for her cuz ur such a baller and 40$ is chump change), you'd waste time and resources to attempt to troll a court to (most likely unsuccessfully) get out of paying it?

I thought you were done with this thread?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...mieux_2001.jpg

[archibaldcrane]

you really haven't made it clear tbh not trolling..

Because in the situation involving an unattended parked car, it can be very difficult to determine who parked it there and it would be a hassle to the point where it would make parking ticket distribution, and therefore parking regulation enforcement unfeasible. I get that, I understand it, I agree that it is the case, and I do not expect nor want the government to give up on parking enforcement.

In speeding situations, first and foremost, there is a long 60+ year history of speeders being identified with 99.9+% accuracy when they are given tickets - that being when they are pulled over and present their driver's license. I have no problem with this system. Recently automated revenue systems also came into practice. Some of them use face cameras. Face cameras accurately record a photo of the violator the vast, vast majority of the time, are in widespread use in a dozen states, and ensure the person being charged in court is the person who committed the violation without making traffic violation enforcement unfeasible.

Then there's this system, where there is literally 0 evidence collected to identify the violator, either as a way to make sure you're fining the correct person or not fining the wrong person, and on top of that even if you can prove you weren't the violator, you have courts telling you that it's meaningless unless you catch the perpetrator for them.

3 ways to catch speeders. I disagree with one of them. I hope this clears up the difference between my views on parking tickets and speeding tickets.

[archibaldcrane]

Then why, with your hypothetical situation where your gf gets caught speeding in your car by one of these cameras, instead of having her pay it (or you pay it for her cuz ur such a baller and 40$ is chump change), you'd waste time and resources to attempt to troll a court to (most likely unsuccessfully) get out of paying it?

If I didn't do it, I shouldn't have to pay it. If they aren't alleging that she did it, she shouldn't have to pay it either. If they determine she did it, she should have to pay it. Seems pretty logical.

[Demosthenes11]

If I didn't do it, I shouldn't have to pay it. If they aren't alleging that she did it, she shouldn't have to pay it either. If they determine she did it, she should have to pay it. Seems pretty logical.

and this is the same as parking tickets, but you think that's different because of feasibility of finding the right perp? There really is no argument against what you are saying, then, other that lol ok

Either they need proof of identity to give a ticket or they don't. You are manufacturing some weird grey area with feasibility to fit your argument, and it's kinda strange

[Tweek]

but these speeding camera fines aren't the same as the speeding tickets you've been used to for 60 years they're completely different they're almost in no way similar or the same. If you tell that little voice in your head that allows you to apply justification to the parking tickets in which case you understand what enforcement is reasonable and what is not then you would get the same results as everyone here arguing with you. I don't see a problem with the face cameras but keep in mind it changes everything and we're no longer talking about small fines we're talking about identifying drivers, adding points to records, adjusting insurance rates and at the same time opens up the court to dismissing tons of cases because someone close to the owner of the car was driving i.e. mother/father/gf etc I highly doubt the court is going to do research of your close family and friends to identify the case they will ask you to identify them and if you say you don't know then they will dismiss the case per what I've read about them.. to me that leaves a lot of bullshit loopholes for what MD is trying to accomplish. You said it yourself you drove someone else's car for 7 years you honestly think it's fair that you and the owner of that vehicle found a loophole out of any automated tickets as being justifiable?

Personally I think adding face cameras would suck it's essentially adding 1000s of asshole bullshit hiding cops who issue out tickets to people that have actual repercussions I would have to deal with. I'm not going to say it's not fair to add the face cameras but I really don't see the need for them, I get what MD is doing, it makes sense to me and I don't think I would feel violated if I was driving the streets of MD.

Also you say 0 evidence collected when in fact there is a photograph and brings us to the point it's not like these tickets are being mailed out randomly to people, there is in fact more evidence collected than the parking violation.

[archibaldcrane]

Either they need proof of identity to give a ticket or they don't.

Nah, that's really not how it works right now. Some tickets right now (parking, automated speeding tickets in maryland) don't require proof of identity, and all the rest do. I'm not manufacturing a grey area, it already exists.

[NynJa]

How do you identify whos driving on a parking ticket? Sit around the car waiting for them to return? lololol

[Demosthenes11]

Nah, that's really not how it works right now. Some tickets right now (parking, automated speeding tickets in maryland) don't require proof of identity, and all the rest do. I'm not manufacturing a grey area, it already exists.

and those are completely different types of tickets. 1 that requires identity to issue a ticket, 1 that does not.

[archibaldcrane]

How do you identify whos driving on a parking ticket? Sit around the car waiting for them to return? lololol

Exactly, if it was required it would make parking enforcement pretty much impossible. I don't want parking enforcement to be impossible, so I don't have issues with the current system.

However, the effort required to take face photos on speed cameras would not make speeding ticket issuance impossible in the slightest, therefore such an effort should be taken.

[archibaldcrane]

and those are completely different types of tickets. 1 that requires identity to issue a ticket, 1 that does not.

If it's trivial to incorporate into the system a way to document who was driving (like it would be to add face cameras to speed traps) why shouldn't that be required?

[Demosthenes11]

If it's trivial to incorporate into the system a way to document who was driving, why shouldn't that be required?

you want the ticket to go from $40 to $300 because of your moral objection here?

[hey]

you want the ticket to go from $40 to $300 because of your moral objection here?

Uh, what? Why would the fine go up just because they know for sure the person was speeding?

[Tweek]

because the punishment is appropriate given the means in identifying the responsible party, if the punishment was more severe (as in the normal speeding tickets) then they would be required to have a higher quality system of identifying the correct party

[Tweek]

Uh, what? Why would the fine go up just because they know for sure the person was speeding?

have you ever received a speeding ticket? do you even have a license? do you understand what's we're even talking about? what demos is suggesting is exactly what would happen and the violation fees would increase as you received more