Maryland Speed cameras

[Tweek]

doesn't change the fact that if you lend your car to a friend and they park illegally you're still responsible even if you didn't park the car and didn't use it the entire day you are still liable to pay it that's the point to the counter "i wasn't driving"

how often are people loaning out their cars to people too so much that they think this is the norm?

[Ksandra]

how often are people loaning out their cars to people too so much that they think this is the norm?

this is what I'm asking archi with some data, and all I get is a lame response.

[Cream Soda]

There's also a difference in being convicted of a crime and being fined.

[Tweek]

i speed pretty often, i've paid my fair share of tickets but if i lived in a town that had hella speed cameras i prolly would think about adjusting how i drive a bit

[Baha]

The situation of identifying the parker when they are clearly not present, vs. identifying the driver when they clearly are present makes the situations clearly different.

So what if they're not present? How can they be sure who parked it? They should wait till the driver returns to make sure it's the car's owner. Or at least look around nearby places to find them. Right?

They aren't even trying to establish something that is incredibly simple to establish. Take a photo of the driver's face, like, ya know, every red light camera in california does. Then when the court situation lines up, the "it wasn't me" defense is extremely easy to determine the validity of - and on top of that you have actual evidence that the actual person you are actually prosecuting actually did something wrong! THE HORROR

I really, really don't understand where this is keeps coming from.
Car owner drives car? : probably at least three quarters of all offenses, and that's being generous
Direct relative of owner driving car (see also: family car): the biggest chunk of that remaining quarter => non-issue, sorted in the family
Friend or neighbout driving car: Pretty clear to see that this is the vast minority here. Owner knows who's driving *their* car, so it's either solved like normal human beings, or owner now knows the other guy's a massive dick.
Cars registered to businesses don't figure into it, even if the people in charge are idiots and don't know which employee is in any given vehicle at any particular time, they'll catch on quick.

Practically, this hardly ever causes issues. For serious offenses (revoking license or impounding car serious), it will go to court. Again, the vast majority of the offenses will be minor ones, with the correspondingly minor consequence of a fine.

The whole "parking ticket" argument fails, since a meter maid issues the tickets. They may be heartless at times, but meter maids are still human. There are neither automated parking ticket enforcement cameras nor robots that issue tickets as far as I know, so there is still a human element involved. I'm sure parking tickets can be contested also. The example I gave in my post was a demonstration of taking everything human out of the equation, with everyone being presumed guilty and no defense possible unless they could provide names and addresses of the person who was operating the vehicle if it wasn't the car's owner. Challenging the validity of the machines (which btw were proven to be defective in other cities) was not allowed.

Human operators still handle the camera tickets. The system obviously needs to be checked and certified for accuracy frequently by nonbiased officials, like breathalizers, handheld speedguns or anything of this manner is.

[archibaldcrane]

this is what I'm asking archi with some data, and all I get is a lame response.

Data? How could I provide data when "You can't prove it was me driving" is an invalid argument in front of the court.

Does the frequency matter? Is anyone in this thread actually against cameras that would take face shots of drivers like every other automated traffic system does? What would this possibly harm?

[archibaldcrane]

I'm just amazed at how many people think

Truthfully saying "I didn't do it, and you don't have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that I did" is not a bullshit loop hole.

is false.

[Tweek]

Truthfully saying "I didn't do it, and you don't have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that I did" is not a bullshit loop hole.

go to MD and speed everywhere bro, you got nothing to worry about.

[Ksandra]

Data? How could I provide data when "You can't prove it was me driving" is an invalid argument in front of the court.

Does the frequency matter? Is anyone in this thread actually against cameras that would take face shots of drivers like every other automated traffic system does? What would this possibly harm?

I'm referring to you saying this:

the fact they are prosecuting the wrong people regularly isn't an issue?

how regularly are they prosecuting the wrong people? that's the data I want as this statement makes it sound like you think friends are fucking speeding and getting caught by this shit all the time.

[Gregorio]

"I didn't do it, and I'm not going to tell you who did, but you can't prove it was me so nyah nyah" is not reasonable.

Seriously...if any defense attorney ever said nothing at all or didn't offer any explanations when confronted with even circumstantial evidence, they wouldn't have a job very long.

[archibaldcrane]

"I didn't do it, you can't prove it was me" is not reasonable.

lol

What fucking world am I in where the legal system doesn't have the burden of proof?

[archibaldcrane]

I'm referring to you saying this:



how regularly are they prosecuting the wrong people? that's the data I want as this statement makes it sound like you think friends are fucking speeding and getting caught by this shit all the time.

The Maryland Comptroller's office has released data to StopBigBrotherMD.org in response to a Public Information Act request revealing that 13 municipalities reported speed camera revenue totaling $36million in the Fiscal Year from July, 2010-June30 2011. Combined with other cities, counties, and the State of Maryland's program whose revenue data is available in open sources, this adds up to approximately $77million worth of speed camera revenue in one year, or the equivalent of approximately 1.9million citations.

Lets say 1% of these are issued to people who had someone else driving their car. Is that extremely conservative estimate low enough for you? Ok, so 1% of 1.9 million per year is 19,000 tickets issued to the wrong person in one state alone. Per year.

All because there's no camera identifying the driver. Hmmm. That's a lot of tickets issued to the wrong person.

[Ksandra]

That's not something I would constitute as regularly. And no throwing out low percents is still pulling something out of your ass.

Nor does that include those that proved it was someone else, or that they got the money from the real person, etc. etc.

[archibaldcrane]

That's not something I would constitute as regularly. And no throwing out low percents is still pulling something out of your ass.

Nor does that include those that proved it was someone else, or that they got the money from the real person, etc. etc.

19,000 a year is 52 per day. That's not regularly? Do you really think 1% is too high an estimate?

I get it, you're asking me for statistics that you know I could not possibly produce and then browbeating me for making even the most conservative possible estimate. It's a bullshit arguing tactic, which should be expected given your indefensible position on this issue.

[archibaldcrane]

Still waiting to hear what's wrong with getting cameras that take photos of the driver's faces.

[Gregorio]

lol

What fucking world am I in where the legal system doesn't have the burden of proof?

They do, and that picture of your car (that's registered to you) blowing past a speed camera at 12 over the limit is enough. If you don't have an explanation or any defense as to why a car that you're responsible for is speeding, you're going to lose the case because that circumstantial evidence shows that it is not reasonable (or beyond a reasonable doubt) that you don't know.

And I don't think anything's wrong with 2 cameras. But it's probably a lot cheaper to not set up 2 cameras, especially in a city like Baltimore that doesn't have money to begin with.

[Ksandra]

I think we've had quite a lot of defense, and the only counter argument you've had is wanting the face on the picture. Which you know, they will still send to the owner of the vehicle (police don't know what the fuck you look like) and then you still have to go and show who really was the driver. The face just make sit easier to prove. Cali doesn't have a face database they go through each time they flash a ticket to make sure the face matches up with the owner.

You still have to take the extra step to show them that wasn't you and who it was.

[archibaldcrane]

I think we've had quite a lot of defense, and the only counter argument you've had is wanting the face on the picture. Which you know, they will still send to the owner of the vehicle (police don't know what the fuck you look like) and then you still have to go and show who really was the driver. The face just make sit easier to prove. Cali doesn't have a face database they go through each time they flash a ticket to make sure the face matches up with the owner.

You still have to take the extra step to show them that wasn't you and who it was.

Right, but in that situation you could actually prove it wasn't you, as opposed to going to court, saying "it wasn't me" and then the court saying "HEY GUY FUCK YOU LOL HERE'S YOUR TICKET DOESN'T MATTER" which is what the current situation is.

[Ksandra]

Right, but in that situation you could actually prove it wasn't you, as opposed to going to court, saying "it wasn't me" and then the court saying "HEY GUY FUCK YOU LOL HERE'S YOUR TICKET DOESN'T MATTER" which is what the current situation is.

you then take your friend to court, all it does is save a step, which is fine btw, but not enough to rage over those that have an extra one.

[archibaldcrane]

No Ksandra, I get it. I think you shouldn't get speeding tickets unless you were speeding, and you disagree. Agree to disagree I guess, I'm not going to convince you you're wrong about how people should be getting speeding tickets they don't deserve.