FL Teen Aquitted of Murder in Bully Stabbing

[Flatliner]

No I haven't but this kid wasn't either. The bully wasn't trying to kill him he was just doing normal bully things.

Uhh...getting punched in the back of the head can be fatal, especially if the 17 y.o. was significantly bigger/stronger than the guy, which he probably was given age difference. The base of your skull is where your most basic systems (like breathing) exist in your brain and is relatively fragile compared to the rest of your brain. If you ever watching any kinds of fighting sports (MMA, boxing, etc) you'll know that its illegal to strike an opponent in the back of the head for this reason.

Also, the fight or flight point is a really good one. When you choose fight, you don't stop til the other guy is down. Especially when you already tried flight, and it didn't work. When you corner people, and take away all of their escape options you do one of two things to them, you either 1. Make them feel helples, which is where bully-related suicides come from, or 2. Make them scared enough to be willing to do anything to get out of that corner. The bully was using more than just physical intimidation here, he was also mentally and emotionally torturing the kid. Hence, he gets repaid with equal force. Its like kicking a dog and then getting pissed when it bites you.

[Lucavi]

Still, sucks that he died. Even stupid people deserve a chance to make something of themselves.

No worries. Still plenty of stupid people left in the world to carry his torch of stupidity.

[Acturus]

No I haven't but this kid wasn't either. The bully wasn't trying to kill him he was just doing normal bully things. Defending yourself is ok, no one has a problem with that even with a weapon but when your using a knife 1 or 2 stabs is enough to bring the attacker down. To me self defense is like that fat kid who slamed that skinny kid in Australia I believe. He did it once and that's it the attacker is down and unable to continue fighting so the fat kid walked away now if he continued to do it then he should have been punished because now he is causing more harm for no other reason but to cause more harm.

The good news is that in instances like this one, things usually go before a neutral third party, and each side explains themselves so that the third party can make a judgement about it.

Because when you say that this kid wasn't in a life or death situation, you don't know. I don't know. Fuck all if anyone in this forum knows. But that kid was scared, and he reacted. According to the courts, he reacted within his legal right to defend himself.

We can split hairs all we want about how much bullying we think is required before someone can defend themselves with lethal force, but the bottom line is, fight or flight is an instinctual reaction to a perceived danger. To sit back and suggest that anyone will logically evaluate how much antagonism they're supposed to endure based on the level of retaliation they're willing to commit to is just being silly about it.

[Judai]

Looking at the article, I like how the one picture of the bully is this perfectly nice, happy photo of him dressed up, while the two photos of the other kid look like a mug shot and him at the witness stand. Lovely attempt to victimize the bully by the media.

[Kuya]

What i most hate is how the family of the bully never admits to how their kid is a horrible person. Probably because they're horrible people too.

[Dizzy]

This is a 14 year old getting ganged up on after trying to run and even getting off the bus early to avoid the fight. If Nuno followed him off the bus with his posse and punched Saavedra in the back of the head right there, what do you think he's gonna do when they're out of view of the bus? Guess he should've ended up in the hospital right? This guy did the right thing and I think I would've done the same too (I don't know about 12 stabs but hey I wasn't there).

[Kerberoz]

Uhh...getting punched in the back of the head can be fatal

Yup

normal bully things

Because being a sociopathic twat (only the C word is banned, right?) is normal.

[Roundelk]

lol...if you don't know how it is to be attacked in such a manner you really shouldn't be judging. When you are being attacked and you seriously feel the need to fight back, you don't just hit him once and stop if you knock him down. This is a 14 year old skinny kid being jumped, not some sort of zen-master karate student. When you get jumped you either 1) run, which he tried to do and was still jumped, 2) turtle up and hope you don't die, or 3) attack back, and at this point you're seeing red. You attack until they are either running away or not moving, it's not like you have the time/presence of mind to say 'oh well cool, he felt that one, I probably should stop now'.

I never been in a life or death situation that doesn't mean I never been a fight. I've had countless fights when I was younger and even been jumped. I really wouldn't call getting into a fight or getting jumped a life or death situation unless the attackers were warmed with serious shit which they weren't. Shit most of the time where your getting jumped and you stab one of the attackers the rest would run away scared shitless and leave their boy on the ground to die. Don't misunderstand me though I don't have a problem with him defending himself with a knife but 12 stabs is past defending yourself to me especially when the attacker is already on the floor bleeding to death after the first 3 stabs and you go on top of him stabbing him more.

[Dimmauk]

I've seen 14 year olds that are bigger than adults. I guess being a bully is now grounds for termination? I do think that murder charge was too harsh, but manslaughter and probation isn't. What happened to old fashioned fighting with your hands or running for your life?

[Kerberoz]

I never been in a life or death situation that doesn't mean I never been a fight. I've had countless fights when I was younger and even been jumped. I really wouldn't call getting into a fight or getting jumped a life or death situation unless the attackers were warmed with serious shit which they weren't. Shit most of the time where your getting jumped and you stab one of the attackers the rest would run away scared shitless and leave their boy on the ground to die. Don't misunderstand me though I don't have a problem with him defending himself with a knife but 12 stabs is past defending yourself to me especially when the attacker is already on the floor bleeding to death after the first 3 stabs and you go on top of him stabbing him more.

English, please?

[Callisto]

Looking at the article, I like how the one picture of the bully is this perfectly nice, happy photo of him dressed up, while the two photos of the other kid look like a mug shot and him at the witness stand. Lovely attempt to victimize the bully by the media.

All I got out of the pictures was that the kid who died had at least 20 pounds on the stabber and looked to be in pretty solid shape, bullied kid looked bird-chested as fuck

I've seen 14 year olds that are bigger than adults. I guess being a bully is now grounds for termination? I do think that murder charge was too harsh, but manslaughter and probation isn't. What happened to old fashioned fighting with your hands or running for your life?

Being a bully isn't a death sentence on it's own, but the onus is on the bully to not start the fight. If you fuck with a beehive and get stung and die from being allergic you can't put that on the bees, lol. If you start shit, there can always be undesired consequences, sometimes fatal. Don't start shit and tadaaa, non-issue.

[Valisk]

I never been in a life or death situation that doesn't mean I never been a fight. I've had countless fights when I was younger and even been jumped. I really wouldn't call getting into a fight or getting jumped a life or death situation unless the attackers were warmed with serious shit which they weren't.

The victims of these sports fan beatings that are being left in comas and swollen medical bills would like to have a word with you.

I've seen 14 year olds that are bigger than adults. I guess being a bully is now grounds for termination? I do think that murder charge was too harsh, but manslaughter and probation isn't. What happened to old fashioned fighting with your hands or running for your life?

There's a picture of the 14 year old kid in the article Dimmy. He's not "bigger than" an adult. He's a skinny, Lord of the Rings looking kid who tried to avoid the situation. Old fashion fighting with your hands up? That's fine (it's legally not) if you have two willing participants. He tried running. The fact that he had a pocket knife in the first place lets you know this isn't the first time he's been picked on. What do you do when you're tired of running? Was he suppose to run everyday until he graduated and went off to college? I'm glad the kid stayed within his legal rights to defend himself instead of putting the country thru another Columbine situation.

[Judai]

Don't misunderstand me though I don't have a problem with him defending himself with a knife but 12 stabs is past defending yourself to me especially when the attacker is already on the floor bleeding to death after the first 3 stabs and you go on top of him stabbing him more.

You weren't there, you don't know if the bully went down fast or if he kept fighting once he realized he was getting stabbed. As I said, some people break mentally and don't realize how far they have gone, if the bully didn't want to chance getting stabbed 12 times he shouldn't have put someone in a situation where that could occur.

I've seen 14 year olds that are bigger than adults. I guess being a bully is now grounds for termination? I do think that murder charge was too harsh, but manslaughter and probation isn't. What happened to old fashioned fighting with your hands or running for your life?

When did bullying become acceptable behavior that we have to justify defending oneself? The kid tried to run, the bully followed. What would you say if the kid turtled and the bully beat him to death? At least he was a man and took his beating?

[Jb1210a]

Also, there's a well documented case about bullying in Herschel Walker who developed a split personality from being bullied as a kid. In case we needed more fuel for this fire.

[Bregor]

Valisk we miss you in the NFL threads.

[Elrina]

I've seen 14 year olds that are bigger than adults. I guess being a bully is now grounds for termination? I do think that murder charge was too harsh, but manslaughter and probation isn't. What happened to old fashioned fighting with your hands or running for your life?

When fighting with your hands isn't an option, because you don't know how to fight and the other guy is much larger and has his friends standing behind him, and running away isn't an option because you tried that and they caught your ass and prevented it, what do you do?

What do you do the second time it happens?

What do you do the fifth time?

The tenth?

etc.

Fuck that bullying little shit. Maybe if his parents were doing their fucking job it wouldn't have happened. It's too bad that it took death to get the message across, but even so he deserves no sympathy, only pity. Living with having killed someone is all the punishment the victim needs.

[Callisto]

I'm glad the kid stayed within his legal rights to defend himself instead of putting the country thru another Columbine situation.

This like a motherfucker. For anyone saying that it's overkill that he stabbed to death the kid actively beating him, at least he didn't just bottle that shit up and unload on the entire school.

[TacoTaru]

People who defend bullies actually make me laugh. I tried reading the comments on that news story, but I couldn't make it more than a few before I gave up; especially the one saying he was "too big of a girl to just fight after school".

Also people might want to read Columbine by Dave Cullen before we start bringing that into the conversation with bullying.(Unless of course something has came out against it since it's release)

[Callisto]

Also, there's a well documented case about bullying in Herschel Walker who developed a split personality from being bullied as a kid. In case we needed more fuel for this fire.

See, bullying is great, being bullied will lead directly to becoming a millionaire star athlete! We definitely should lock down on these thugs who are dispatching our nation's bullies.

[Dimmauk]

Valisk we miss you in the NFL threads.

He was bullied, so he ran and is still running. He should have just stabbed the mean guys.