2012 Republican Presidential Candidate Race

[Ragnus]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...past-two-years

In releasing details of his tax burden for the past two years, Mitt Romney offered a small window into a vast wealth. The tax records show that the former Massachusetts governor made $42.6 million over the past two years and because most of it came from capital gains, he paid $6.2 million in taxes.

That means that in 2010, his tax rate was 13.9 percent, and in 2011, it's expected to be 15.4 percent, lower than many Americans who pay taxes on wages.

Romney was pushed into releasing his tax returns this week by a relentless attack from his fellow Republicans. Former House speaker and presidential hopeful Newt Gingrich led the charge by saying that Republican primary voters should have a chance to look at the documents to see if they had a flawed candidate. At first, Romney said he would not release his tax records at all, but after a bruising loss in South Carolina in which questions about his wealth and his company Bain Capital dominated, Romney relented.

The Washington Post, which received a copy of the tax reforms early, reports on some of the details:

"The couple gave away $7 million in charitable contributions over the past two years, including at least $4.1 million to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Romney's family has for generations been among the Mormon Church's most prominent members.

"The Romneys sent somewhat less to Washington over that period, paying an estimated $6.2 million in federal income taxes. According to his 2010 return, Romney paid about $3 million to the IRS, for an effective tax rate of 13.9 percent.

"For 2011, Romney estimates that he will pay about $3.2 million, for an effective rate of 15.4 percent. That's in line with his earlier estimates, but sharply lower than the rates paid by President Obama and Romney's closest Republican rival, Newt Gingrich."

Obama paid a 25 percent tax rate, while Gingrich paid 31 percent in 2010.

Reuters reports that Romney's tax records also show that an undisclosed amount of his money is in the Grand Cayman Islands and other places overseas.

"Romney advisers stressed that the holdings in the Caymans — along with those in a Swiss bank account that was closed in 2010 after an investment adviser decided it could be politically embarrassing to Romney — were reported on tax returns and were not vehicles to avoid taxes," Reuters adds.

Over the past couple of weeks, Romney has defended his wealth and his tax rate, saying that he would "not apologize for being successful." During last night's debate, Romney added that his tax bill is "entirely legal and entirely fair."

"You'll see my income, how much taxes I've paid, how much I've paid to charity," Romney said. "I pay all the taxes that are legally required and not a dollar more. I don't think you want someone as the candidate for president who pays more taxes than he owes."

There were more than 500 pages of records released early this morning. So we'll update this story as we find more.

Update at 7:35 p.m. ET. Average Tax Rate Is 11 Percent:

NPR's Tamara Keith explained on Morning Edition that the average taxpayer pays about 11 percent in taxes. Add to that the payroll tax and Medicare tax and it pushes it above Romney's rate of 15 percent.

So how did Romney's rates stay so low? As we alluded to earlier, it has to do with the fact that taxes on capital gains — or money that comes from stock dividends, investments and interest — is paid at a 15 percent rate.

Tamara explained that Romney amassed great wealth during his time at Bain Capital "and now that money is generating more money and it's taxed at 15 percent."

Yeah. Really in touch with the common man. Looking to lower capital gains tax when the bulk of his income from from that and also has an "undisclosed" ton of money in offshore accounts.

[Kuya]

So in 2010, Romney earned 9 times what Gingrich did, but Romney paid half the taxes Gingrich did.

How can we be surprised about wealth and income polarization?

[kuronosan]

Evidently you don't understand how the economy works, Kuya.

[Kurokikaze]

Fuckin sad when someone making 60k/yr pays more in taxes... This hurts man. ; ;

[Andalusian girls]

i understand many believe the capital gains taxation rate is unfair juxtaposed with the steeply progressive income tax, as it is flat, but that is more an issue with the tax code than the candidate.

for what it's worth Romney doesn't want to lower the capital gains tax on people like him but would abolish it for wage earners making less than 200,000 a year, helping foster greater investment opportunities for the middle class so they can benefit from the same system that has benefited him so well. Gingrich by contrast wants to eliminate the capital gains tax entirely, so people like Romney would get by with paying essentially nothing.

Yo fag, that's not what i'm saying. I'm saying that victimhood is the business of the left precisely because the left takes it upon itself to defend victims, and especially because said victims also form part of the left. But conservatives have very little to do with minorities or any other group that possesses less power and often ends up on the receiving end of abuse, yet conservatives can't get enough of victimhood.

I suppose it's just too good of a card to play to just leave it to the left, even if the left has a legitimate claim to it.

right but all you said was conservatives have a tendency to portray themselves as victims when a more accurate statement would be most political figures / movements regardless of ideological affiliation like to portray themselves as victims, or more appropriately as a noble oppressed minority valiantly struggling against overwhelming sinister forces.

nobody routed for Emperor Palpatine

[Talint]

for what it's worth Romney doesn't want to lower the capital gains tax on people like him but would abolish it for wage earners making less than 200,000 a year, helping foster greater investment opportunities for the middle class so they can benefit from the same system that has benefited him so well.

Honest question. How many in the middle class are going to invest when barriers to entry are lowered?

I would think the middle class pays down debt rather than invest it.

[Andalusian girls]

more than otherwise would have

[Weeks]

i understand many believe the capital gains taxation rate is unfair juxtaposed with the steeply progressive income tax, as it is flat, but that is more an issue with the tax code than the candidate.

for what it's worth Romney doesn't want to lower the capital gains tax on people like him but would abolish it for wage earners making less than 200,000 a year, helping foster greater investment opportunities for the middle class so they can benefit from the same system that has benefited him so well.

Misleading. The tax cuts are scheduled to expire after this year, and Romney wants to extend them in full and repeal the healthcare bill, which will maintain his tax rate at roughly 15% minus deductions, instead of allowing it to rise to ~25% as it is scheduled to do. Lapdog Obama is probably going to extend the tax cuts himself, and of course Gingrich is full-force sucking off the investor class, so Romney is an intermediate choice on the issue but it's false to say that all he wants to do is lower capital gains for the middle class.

[Demosthenes11]

I don't really find Romney at fault for low tax rates either. Yes, it sucks someone making that much is only paying that much in taxes, but it's not his fault, per se. You can't expect him to pay more taxes than he owes lol. I have much more of a problem with things like offshore bank accounts

[Talint]

more than otherwise would have

I honestly don't think lower barriers to entry means that more middle-class people are going to go "Hey, I have this excess money. I'm going to go invest it in mutual funds!" Again, I think the middle class is going pay down debt rather than invest.

To put it another way, I don't think taxes are what's keeping the middle class out of investing. I think those who already have, are; and those who aren't... well, aren't.

[Kuya]

i understand many believe the capital gains taxation rate is unfair juxtaposed with the steeply progressive income tax, as it is flat, but that is more an issue with the tax code than the candidate.

for what it's worth Romney doesn't want to lower the capital gains tax on people like him but would abolish it for wage earners making less than 200,000 a year, helping foster greater investment opportunities for the middle class so they can benefit from the same system that has benefited him so well. Gingrich by contrast wants to eliminate the capital gains tax entirely, so people like Romney would get by with paying essentially nothing.



right but all you said was conservatives have a tendency to portray themselves as victims when a more accurate statement would be most political figures / movements regardless of ideological affiliation like to portray themselves as victims, or more appropriately as a noble oppressed minority valiantly struggling against overwhelming sinister forces.

nobody routed for Emperor Palpatine

I'm pretty sure most liberals here are well aware that their problem is with the tax code and not that romney has done anything particularly illegal. No need for your input.

Furthermore, i don't need to say that most movements like to portray themselves as victims, because that's stupidly obvious. But since we're not moral relativists, or at least i assume you're not, we know that some movements portray themselves as victims and are victims, and other movements are the aggressors but portray themselves as victims, because, it's a rare thing to see any group of privileged, reactionary conservatives ever admit that they are aggressors.

I don't think politically organized christian homophobes go around saying that they're aggressors, but we do know they claim their religious rights are being oppressed when you tell them you can't claim gay people are going to hell. I don't think politically organized anti-feminist misogynists ever claimed they were aggressors, but they do like to say feminists are trying to turn men into women/gain more rights than men. And finally, i don't think politically organized racists in the old times ever claimed they were the bad guys, but boy did they ever like to say they were having their freedoms violated by a liberal elitist federal government because they were told they could not discriminate against black people.

[Talint]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...south-carolina

I like it when Jon Stewart and I are on the same wavelength.

[zoobernut]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...10981406_n.jpg

How much truth is there to this image? I just saw someone post this on facebook.

[Drex]

i understand many believe the capital gains taxation rate is unfair juxtaposed with the steeply progressive income tax, as it is flat, but that is more an issue with the tax code than the candidate.

the major issue with romney's income is how much of it is "carried interest", which is a definition of dubious viability when we're discussing labor performed and not an asset appreciating. capital gains is a separate issue. both are separate issues from the candidate, sure, but it's a polarizing discussion so it's no surprise he would (and should) draw ire from carried interest's opposition. he's basically it's poster-boy.

[archibaldcrane]

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...10981406_n.jpg

How much truth is there to this image? I just saw someone post this on facebook.

Well, basing it on the 2004 election would be one "flaw" - that was 8 years ago.

[archibaldcrane]

the major issue with romney's income is how much of it is "carried interest", which is a definition of dubious viability when we're discussing labor performed and not an asset appreciating. capital gains is a separate issue. both are separate issues from the candidate, sure, but it's a polarizing discussion so it's no surprise he would (and should) draw ire from carried interest's opposition. he's basically it's poster-boy.

Well, that and he jokes about being "unemployed" while earning 25+M a year.

[Andalusian girls]

I honestly don't think lower barriers to entry means that more middle-class people are going to go "Hey, I have this excess money. I'm going to go invest it in mutual funds!" Again, I think the middle class is going pay down debt rather than invest.

To put it another way, I don't think taxes are what's keeping the middle class out of investing. I think those who already have, are; and those who aren't... well, aren't.

i am not a soothsayer so i cannot say how many individuals will or will not be enticed to play the market but an extra 5%-15% of profits will not have a negative effect on the accessibility of the market (which is currently unprecedented for reasons that have nothing to do with government). at the very least those among the middle class that currently invest will see better returns.

it's not much but i have no qualms with the proposition.

I'm pretty sure most liberals here are well aware that their problem is with the tax code and not that romney has done anything particularly illegal. No need for your input.

Furthermore, i don't need to say that most movements like to portray themselves as victims, because that's stupidly obvious. But since we're not moral relativists, or at least i assume you're not, we know that some movements portray themselves as victims and are victims, and other movements are the aggressors but portray themselves as victims, because, it's a rare thing to see any group of privileged, reactionary conservatives ever admit that they are aggressors.

I don't think politically organized christian homophobes go around saying that they're aggressors, but we do know they claim their religious rights are being oppressed when you tell them you can't claim gay people are going to hell. I don't think politically organized anti-feminist misogynists ever claimed they were aggressors, but they do like to say feminists are trying to turn men into women/gain more rights than men. And finally, i don't think politically organized racists in the old times ever claimed they were the bad guys, but boy did they ever like to say they were having their freedoms violated by a liberal elitist federal government because they were told they could not discriminate against black people.

i'm aware you need to posture for the lurking sycophants but all the added post-facto subtext in the world won't change the partisan banality of your initial statement

but i don't disagree much with the addendums so i'll ignore the trolling from hereon

the major issue with romney's income is how much of it is "carried interest", which is a definition of dubious viability when we're discussing labor performed and not an asset appreciating. capital gains is a separate issue. both are separate issues from the candidate, sure, but it's a polarizing discussion so it's no surprise he would (and should) draw ire from carried interest's opposition. he's basically it's poster-boy.

that's a better point than most have made, and i agree very much that carried interest is clearly a service rendered and should be taxed as such.

[Ragnus]

One thing I find funny is that US Bonds don't fall under "Capital Gains". I cashed mine in last year and was told that I would be only taxed on in the interest and that it would be taxed at my current income tax rate. My family invested in the government and the interest they accrued for me is being treated as normal income.

[Shade]

As a Canadian who has been hanging out in Georgia for the last month, and has been getting slightly more Fox News in her diet than she likes, I just have to know, is there anybody running who like... isn't a total snake?

[Ragnus]

No.