Legion - info and strategies

[Jem]

Did anyone try SE BW KC any Legion mobs?

I doubt it because it wouldn't outdo Reso DRK's even if it did work. I imagine the mobs build SE resistance though.

[TheDangerousDave]

I doubt it because it wouldn't outdo Reso DRK's even if it did work. I imagine the mobs build SE resistance though.

Paper math showed KC doing 33k in 60 seconds damage with lv75 HP, I don't see any DRK being able to do that with Reso

[Mythe_Seraph]

I doubt it because it wouldn't outdo Reso DRK's even if it did work. I imagine the mobs build SE resistance though.

I quit mid 2009, so I really don't know but is Ragnarok really that amazing? It's hard for me to imagine anything out-damaging a KC DRK back when I played.

[Guitarman]

New WS Resolution is just incredibly strong. SE finally threw the weapon a bone.

[TheDangerousDave]

I thought about this cus Ejin CS stuns the one Botolus AND takes a DRK or two anyway. Without doing the paper math my intuition tells me a DRK with Reso won't be able to do more damage than with KC, if not nerfed.

[Jem]

Paper math showed KC doing 33k in 60 seconds damage with lv75 HP, I don't see any DRK being able to do that with Reso

So essentially you think a Reso DRK is incapable of doing 550 DPS?

I know I've comfortably topped that but it wasn't against Botulus (because all my LS quit so I haven't been able to seriously attempt and I don't know anyone else on Asura >_> ). Realistically they should be capable unless Botulus has far higher stats than the normal one.

EDIT: Ejiin's post has him doing 17-18k in WS damage in 45 seconds. Not sure if that's as WAR or DRK or with MS or what though.

[TheDangerousDave]

Ejin is on WAR with MS as far as I know, and in reference to the DRK being unable to do 550 DPS I mean more like what should be theoretically capable now and I'm not sure how much DPS a DRK is capable of tbh but from the screens I've seen of damage to Botolus I don't think DRK would be very capable of doing such damage. What is Rag's attack round speed at max delay reduction?

[Jem]

Ejin is on WAR with MS as far as I know, and in reference to the DRK being unable to do 550 DPS I mean more like what should be theoretically capable now and I'm not sure how much DPS a DRK is capable of tbh but from the screens I've seen of damage to Botolus I don't think DRK would be very capable of doing such damage. What is Rag's attack round speed at max delay reduction?

Should be 86.2 so 87 delay. 1.45 seconds then?

I've done 650+ DPS with Ragna 95 before I got any Phorcys and without using Souleater fwiw (just quickly checked my LS parses thread). Obviously not against a Botulus mob though.

[TheDangerousDave]

I am talking specifically about this Botolus, if you want to claim a higher DPS than 550 on him with 1.45 seconds delay you must be hitting it for like 300 per hit with WS average of about 2k? Complete guesstimate, hoping someone else can chime in with mathz

[Jem]

I don't have any parses of Botulus on the LS forum and like I said, not had the chance to do Legion seriously as all my LS quit recently meaning I rarely log-in as there's fuck all to do (It's that bad that the wife got a Claustrum for christ's sake).

But is 300 per hit and 2k per WS really that farfetched? If Souleater is unresisted then that's only actually 130 per hit and 1200 ish per WS. And Warden said only a page or so back that someone in his LS was doing 1300-2000 per Entropy without Souleater and Entropy is far inferior to Resolution.

I have no idea if your numbers are inline with what it would take though.

[TheDangerousDave]

I'm not arguing that KC>>>Reso Rag or whatever, just curious how it would come out but yeah I would think those numbers are a bit high from the screenshots I've seen and people discussing it, also take into account that 550 DPS was back at 75 which should be very swayed now because it was with less than capped gear haste and lower HP. I'm just throwing it out there as a question because my intuition is telling me that if unresisted, KC SE should be beastly now and the shots Ejin post with MS are not what we're looking at for a DRK at all

[Fake]

Assuming souleater doesn't get resisted it seems everyone pretty much agrees that even if rag doesn't beat K club, its not a million miles away.

With that in mind, Rex is probably going to take well over 60 seconds to kill, you will also need to madrigal the K club user. That will take longer to buff but more important is the fact that if the duration of the fight exceeds K clubs usefulness that Drk will be left doing sevrely reduced damage afterwards. Which leaves K club looking like a pretty poor option.

All that said, if we're discussing rag then come the correct job and do much more damage than any drk combination with mighty strikes.

[pchan]

I'm not arguing that KC>>>Reso Rag or whatever, just curious how it would come out but yeah I would think those numbers are a bit high from the screenshots I've seen and people discussing it, also take into account that 550 DPS was back at 75 which should be very swayed now because it was with less than capped gear haste and lower HP. I'm just throwing it out there as a question because my intuition is telling me that if unresisted, KC SE should be beastly now and the shots Ejin post with MS are not what we're looking at for a DRK at all

Instead of throwing useless numbers why don't you input DRK gear in motenten's spreadsheet and compare ? 550-575 dps is what a buffed vere99 monk is putting out with BRD and capped ddex setups on no level corrected mobs.

[TheDangerousDave]

Assuming souleater doesn't get resisted it seems everyone pretty much agrees that even if rag doesn't beat K club, its not a million miles away.

With that in mind, Rex is probably going to take well over 60 seconds to kill, you will also need to madrigal the K club user. That will take longer to buff but more important is the fact that if the duration of the fight exceeds K clubs usefulness that Drk will be left doing sevrely reduced damage afterwards. Which leaves K club looking like a pretty poor option.

All that said, if we're discussing rag then come the correct job and do much more damage than any drk combination with mighty strikes.

Everyone being one person here?

I had completely forgotten about Accuracy, you're right, but don't people use it anyway? And I completely agree with you, I can easily see how a WAR with Rag and MS is doing far more than any DRK can do but Ejin takes 2 DRKs with his group.

Also that is the point: If KC is going to do excellent damage then 2 DRKs using it are going to kill it faster, like within the duration of SE

pchan: Didn't know it existed and was that easy to use so I'll have a look

[Fake]

Everyone being one person here?

I had completely forgotten about Accuracy, you're right, but don't people use it anyway? And I completely agree with you, I can easily see how a WAR with Rag and MS is doing far more than any DRK can do but Ejin takes 2 DRKs with his group.

Also that is the point: If KC is going to do excellent damage then 2 DRKs using it are going to kill it faster, like within the duration of SE

pchan: Didn't know it existed and was that easy to use so I'll have a look

We use 1 Madrigal and 2 Minuets for everything except Harpy(no fourth song for us yet) and your damage will drop massively without the extra attack.

I don't see you killing rex in under 60 seconds even with 2 K club drks. I am unable to check logs atm but rex definitely goes down a lot lot slower than gallu if that gives you a frame of reference.

I don't know why Ejin is using 2 drks over 2 more Wars, maybe the stuns are worth the trade off in damage. My group uses 2-3 drks normally but now that we can clear gallu with time to spare we may look into some more war for 2hr on rex.

Also everyone is based on several people telling you 550 DPS is not a particularly hard number to reach. Either way there is a massive increase in DPS for normal weapons now compared to 75 whereas K club will only be benefitting from the extra hp we've gained from levels and gear which isn't anywhere near as big of an improvement.

[Jem]

It likely won't matter because in all honesty it is extremely likely that Botulus builds Souleater resistance. I can't think of any top tier mobs (at the time of implementation) that they have added over the last few years that don't resist Souleater. Kinda like how they all half resist Atonement nowadays too.

Someone on Asura take me with them and I'll parse my damage to see >_>

[TheDangerousDave]

We use 1 Madrigal and 2 Minuets for everything except Harpy(no fourth song for us yet) and your damage will drop massively without the extra attack.

I don't see you killing rex in under 60 seconds even with 2 K club drks.

I don't know why Ejin is using 2 drks over 2 more Wars, maybe the stuns are worth the trade off in damage. My group uses 2-3 drks normally but now that we can clear gallu with time to spare we may look into some more war for 2hr on rex.

Also everyone is based on several people telling you 550 DPS is not a particularly hard number to reach. Either way there is a massive increase in DPS for normal weapons now compared to 75 whereas K club will only be benefitting from the extra hp we've gained from levels and gear which isn't anywhere near as big of an improvement.

There's only you and Jem that have said 550 DPS is easy for a Rag DRK vs Botolus, with nothing to support it. What pchan said actually argues against 550 DPS being easy because he is showing you that that is what 99 Vere is capable of against equal level mobs etc. Ejin mentioned the DRKs are useful for Stun/Bash.

[Jem]

I don't know how accurate Motenten's sheet is but I've just put in my gear in it as DRK/WAR with RCB + Embrava + Chaos Roll + Haste and it comes out at 711 DPS versus Pil (No atmacites used though obviously) which looks to be the highest tier mob it has in there. That's not including BRD songs or the COR's second roll. It looks to be attack capped as toggling dia/angon on or off does nothing.

No idea over how long a period of time that is.

EDIT: Obviously those are Ragna numbers not KC numbers.

[dasva]

If you were going to do kclub souleater numbers perhaps you should do lvl 99 ones instead of 75... arguing that reso rag can do better than lvl 75 hp is kinda moot at that point. Also when you say lvl 75 hp is that just account for base hp or still using old hp gear?

[TheDangerousDave]

Did you put LR delay reduction on there too? Obv Rag can reach 80% while LR is up and KC can only reach 68.3%. Anyway I would put this set as best for KC, hands are elvaan only though so what is 99 DRK Elvaan naked HP?
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/...ief1987/KC.png

And KC (according to here: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/31...ttack-and-you/) is average 3.82 hits per round.