Legion - info and strategies

[Viar]

PD Amph? Or Amph and Ixion?

What about wave 2?

We did worm->Ixion->Amph, CS stun on worm, PD on Ixion, and use left over PD to kill Amph(Amph doesn't need PD at all though)

Honestly I don't think kill order matters in this hall, I just do this order so I can use time efficiently and clear more waves.

[Idkmybffjill]

Is there a map of Hall of Mul anywhere with starting position indicted?

I don't know how much it helps but just after 2:23:40 of this video our cameraman views the entire chamber. you enter by where we are all clustered in the little room.

http://www.twitch.tv/wish12oz/b/329476832

[Mahoro]

We did worm->Ixion->Amph, CS stun on worm, PD on Ixion, and use left over PD to kill Amph(Amph doesn't need PD at all though)

Honestly I don't think kill order matters in this hall, I just do this order so I can use time efficiently and clear more waves.

We do the worm first as well. I agree order doesn't matter that much in this hall.

[Ihina]

Just finished our first Mul run.

I have a source that says so, but for the Paramount Ironclad(wave2 iron giant), are we sure that hate is random from initial, run-into-range aggro? We rebuffed up, which took 2-3 minutes, with 16 of us sitting at the start, and it never left the PLD who was kiting it. Hate was only random after we put an action on it and claimed it.

[EjinCaitsith]

Just finished our first Mul run.

I have a source that says so, but for the Paramount Ironclad(wave2 iron giant), are we sure that hate is random from initial, run-into-range aggro? We rebuffed up, which took 2-3 minutes, with 16 of us sitting at the start, and it never left the PLD who was kiting it. Hate was only random after we put an action on it and claimed it.

100% sure, but then again, they did seem to ninja fix wave2 Naraka's bug(?) where it didn't die until it casted Kaustra, but recently it's been dying w/o doing anything at all. So I wouldn't put it past them to do it again with another mob that seems to be broken.

[Helel]

Just finished our first Mul run.

I have a source that says so, but for the Paramount Ironclad(wave2 iron giant), are we sure that hate is random from initial, run-into-range aggro? We rebuffed up, which took 2-3 minutes, with 16 of us sitting at the start, and it never left the PLD who was kiting it. Hate was only random after we put an action on it and claimed it.

Just to add on to this (I was PLDguy), RDM said they had to nuke it off me to get its attention. I saw someone provoke it and she cast poison on it but it stayed glued to me until someone actually damaged it.

[Byrthnoth]

Were you out of alliance?

[Martel]

I posted this over on AH, but felt there should be a copy over here.

Mobs in Mul also have a -crit hit trait(seems to be substantial for wave2), so there's certainly justification for the Ragna > Ukon argument for legion. Feint is also only 30seconds, which might be good enough for NQ chambers, but certainly won't cover all mobs in Mul.

Your Mul -crit trait doesn't exist either. I've done 4~ now, and havent seen anything out of the ordinary. If you can provide real evidence, I would be inclined to believe you, but assuming that isn't true, 99 Ukon beats 99 Ragnarok, no matter if a WAR or DRK is holding it, as long as you have 2 other WARs and full time blood rage, which my group does.

This parse is of 6 combined Mul runs.

This is the crit data overall. All mobs.

Player                #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit%
Bokura                  214  152/1225    457.38   13.91 % DRK99Ragnarok
Ejiin                   369  137/1296    446.72   26.28 % WAR99Ragnarok*
Loughry                 141  117/1720    627.43   10.83 %
Martel                  139     0/574    333.80   11.12 %
Ofelia                  205  125/1400    462.30   12.77 % DRK99Ragnarok
Lumiere                   6    56/144    110.00    2.16 %
Ramuh                    11    37/124     87.55    2.26 %

*data unusable due to mighty strikes

Immediately, something is off. I had a 11% crit rate. I TP in claymore grip, and rancorous mantle. Assuming floored dDEX, my crit rate should be at least: 5%(base from dex)+ 5%(merits)+8%(gear)=18%. So I'm 7% too low even assuming the minimum contribution from dex. And we have 2 99 rag DRKs who should have min crit% of 24% coming in as 12~14%... And that's all before factoring in bloodrage from 2 wars.

Now lets break this down by waves.

Same parse data, but only Wave 1 mobs.

Player                #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit%
Bokura                  189  152/1225    456.70   33.22 %
Ejiin                   213  137/1296    448.00   36.92 %
Loughry                 117  117/1488    627.84   22.90 %
Martel                  125    93/574    339.58   27.59 %
Ofelia                  189  125/1400    467.54   31.71 %
Syron                     7    40/455    192.14   38.89 %
Lumiere                   4    56/136    106.75    4.30 %
Ramuh                     6    37/124     87.33    4.69 %

Now look at that. Great crit rate on wave one. I've gone well above my 18% min, and am clearly benefiting from dDEX.

Now, does anyone realize what this implies about wave 2?

Wave2

Player                #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit%
Bokura                   25   308/944    462.52    2.58 %
Ejiin                   156  253/1244    444.96   18.86 % *
Loughry                  24  350/1720    625.42    3.03 %
Martel                   14     0/413    278.23    1.76 %
Ofelia                   16   325/478    400.44    1.59 %
Lumiere                   2    89/144    116.50    1.08 %
Ramuh                     5    71/114     87.80    1.40 %


*data unusable due to mighty strikes

I went from 27.59% on wave 1, to 1.76% on wave 2 mobs.now, you could assume that wave 2 had higher AGI, and floored my dDEX, but even then, I'd be at 18% crit rate. but I'm not, I'm at 1.76%. God, my poor Drakesbanes.

There is Clearly a Massive crit rate penalty vs wave 2 mobs. It has to be at least -16% but realistically is probably greater.

This being the case, crit ws reliant weapons, like Ukon(and my poor Ryunohige) are at a notable disadvantage on wave 2 mobs. Whereas Ragnarok/Resolution don't give a damn.

[Byrthnoth]

This is strategically useful but disappointing. Assuming Ejiin used Blood Rage, it's entirely possible that you're all floored without it and slightly unfloored with it. Given your 18% minimum crit rate, I'd say that the estimation is a little low and realistically we're probably looking at about -30% crit rate on wave 2. That's a lot of damage lost, especially for parties relying on crit damage weapons. How are the crit rates against Gallu?

[Martel]

Oh, I'm pretty damn disappointed. That kinda crit- is a pretty big hit to Drakes dmg. Looking back, between the crit- and naraka mobs, it's surprising that I hold my own so well. <,<

Anyway, gallu only:

Player                #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit%
Bokura                    1   359/359    359.00    0.51 %
Ejiin                     1   416/416    416.00    0.50 %
Loughry                   2  405/1004    704.50    1.09 %
Martel                    2   408/413    410.50    1.17 %
Ofelia                    4   442/478    462.50    1.88 %
Lumiere                   0       0/0      0.00    0.00 %

Note that we're looking at a sample size of less than 200 hits per person when we look at a single mob like this.

As much as I hate to, I think I'm gonna have to try stardiver for wave 2 mobs.

[Byrthnoth]

Still, those are all obviously floored and it gives the impression that previous non-floored values were likely the result of Blood Rage (which wasn't up for this one). Yeah, Stardiver looks like your best bet. It will be interesting to see whether keeping Crit Defense Down 5% on it pushes you guys off the floor.

[pchan]

No surprise here ADL also has - crit % takes we have tried boostdex etc on him

[Martel]

No surprise here ADL also has - crit % takes we have tried boostdex etc on him

Really? Hmmm, well. Honestly, I never checked crit rates on him. Any idea on the potency?

[mdkuser]

yeah 205 DEX and impetus up i was hardly reaching 35% critical hit rate .

Capped dDEX, 10% merit, 5% equip and impetus should be at least 45%.

[Martel]

10% merit? Isn't the crit from merits only 5%? 1% per merit, 5 merit max.

[pchan]

5% base 5% merit

[Martel]

Wouldn't that base would fall under the 20% total from dDEX? Or are you only counting capped dDEX as 15% then adding 5% for base? I can't tell cause I dunno what value you're attributing to Impetus.

[mdkuser]

5% (base) 5% (merit) 5%(randor collar) capped dDEX (15%) and impetus (~15%) should put you at 45% critical hit rate. so either he has 150+ AGI ( since i had 200 DEX), or he as some sort of critical hit rate nerf.

[pchan]

If you are interested in crit build we tried holding ramuh 5 min before poping ADL and got 45% crit rate with boost str instead of boost dex. Also from what I can tell based on impetus math, ADL has between -15% and -10% critical hit % taken.

[Martel]

Well, I just finished combining 8 Xarc run parses(42 ADL fights).

I had 18.46% crit. 5%(base)+5%(merits)+8% gear(claymore+RancorMantle)=18%
Both DRKs had in the 23~24% crit range. 5%+5%+14%(99Ragnarok)=24%

My wyvern had 4.76%.

This is the most telling factor actually. If there was a direct crit- it'd definitely push him below 5%.

It looks to me like ADL either has HUGE AGI. Or a direct penalty to dDEX itself. Because everyone is matching up to what their rates should be with floored dDEX.(Note: No bloodrage or other crit modifying factors were present.)